What's up with my Enfield?

Tyler

Tyler

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There it is:

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A 48 Faz.

I bought it at a gunshow for $300, shiney bore with lots of rifling, no visible wear at the muzzle and a little at the throat. The action is tight and the rifle appears to be all matching: Bolt, action, mag, stock. The barrel is questionable because I can't make out the serial number on it, just the last two numbers which match the last two of the serial no.

Down to my questions.

Is this an 'Ishy Screw'?
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If so, why was it put there? I've read the Indians put it there to prevent the stock from cracking, but the stock's integrity, beyond some surface dings, is fine. Does it affect anything? Why do collectors hate this so much? Did anyone other than the Indians use this?

The toe and heel of the stock have been replaced. I've also read that this was common practice on Indian rifles.
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I've seen absolutely no Indian markings on this rifle that would indicate that it has been there. However there is an 'N' with a crown above on the top of the reciever where it meets the top hand guard. I'm told that this is a Royal Navy marking, any truth to that?

Is there a good website with good marking info?

Lastly, I bought this as a shooter and I have not been dissapointed, it shoots nicely. Did I pay too much?

Thanks for any help.
 
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Hi Tyler,

Yes, that is the dreaded "Ishy Screw". It is only really disliked from a cosmetic point of view, as the purpose (reportedly) was to reinforce the fore-end due to the Indian army allegedly tending to use more rifle grenades than other commonwealth nations, and splitting the wood.

An excellent website on Enfield markings is one administered by Jay Currah - I don't have a link handy, but just google for Jay Currah and Enfield, and you'll find it. Off the top of my head, I'm not sure about your "N" meaning naval use of a No4.

If your rifle shoots well, and you're happy with it, that's the true measure of value - In today's market, $300 is perhaps at the high end of what Enfields are going for, but I don't think you've been taken to the cleaners at that price. They are only getting more expensive!

Good luck with it - I suspect it won't end up being your only Lee Enfield!

Cheers,

Neal
 
N on the butt means "Normal length" of butt. They were available via the armourer in long, Normal Short and Bantam,I believe! With the SLR this was changed with different thickness of butt pads used!
N over a crown? May be the remains of BNP over crown which was the Birminham Proof House stampand necessary if sold out of sevice in the UK.

London House: Stamp has a crown over a "CP" on barrel and a crown over a "V" on barrel, slide, and receiver (frame).
Birmingham House: Crown over "BP" on barrel and a crown over "BV" on barrel, slide, and receiver.

You will also find a variation of the Nitro Proof mark. A arm holding a scepter over a circle with NP in it. This mark is from the London house. The Birmingham house has a crown over the BNP mark.
 
Had to wait for daylight to get a good close up:

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The rest of the markings are a mix of broad arrows or 'F's
 
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It isnt in my opinion an Inspectors mark, not one I can find yet. They tend to be crossed swords, lances etc. If it was N on its own on the reciever side it could mean Naval service. N49 was the code for a furniture contractorin Sheffield but that was without a crown.
Crowns over a letter/number code are usually a proof mark but I cant find that one yet. If it is a stamp on pressure bearing parts you should have more than one. Keep looking, I'm now curious. I'll keep looking!
I've asked around on other boards!
 
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Ok it doesnt look like an Inspectors mark, N on the reciever can mean Royal Naval Ordnance depots. If it was an inspection mark it would have crossed flags. Are you asking about the N below the crown or the N below the scrubbed/worn markings?
 
If the rifle went overseas and was used Indian service, it may have been through the Ishapore Armoury at some time for repair or refurbishment. Or at least, the rifle wearing that forearm went through. They seem to have put that screw in there as a preventative measure. Seems to have worked, you mention that the forearm integrity is good with no cracks!


Alternatively, your rifle could have been restored and the forearm replaced after it came out of military service. It does look to be a matching wood set. I have seen the Ishy screw on Brit, Canadian, US and Aussie made rifles. I guess that there was quite a mix of flavours supplied to the India Army. India was the only country to fit the screw as far as I know.

The toe and heel repair is common for rifles that had years of their butts being slammed onto the parade square on the drill command of 'order arms'. Can you see 'DP' marked anywhere on the wood?
 
woodchopper said:
perhaps the wood is not original to the rifle.

someone may have un-bubbed it.

Just my first thought
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The serial no. on the forearm matches the rifle, and the all the wood looks to be the same type.

englishman_ca said:
Can you see 'DP' marked anywhere on the wood?
Click to expand...

Nope, not anywhere I can see.
 
Tour of Duty.

Well if the forearm is numbered to the rifle, it is original. So it would seem that your 1948 Faz ended up doing a tour of duty in India at some time and no doubt saw more use on the parade square than on the range. That's probably why the bore is in such good condition. Its a nice rifle and a good piece for any collection.

I would leave that screw alone and not be concerned by those who would screw their nose up at it. It tells a part of the rifle's story.
 
englishman_ca said:
I would leave that screw alone and not be concerned by those who would screw their nose up at it. It tells a part of the rifle's story.
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That was my intention all along. It's a part of it's history and to remove the screw would be to deny the rifle's past.

The time of production and the fact that it went to India makes perfect sense. My rifle was made in Feb of 48 (or so the markings say, unless the 2/48 in the serial prefix does not reflect that) and India was still at war with Pakistan in Kashmir at the time. While the conflict was winding down they were probably desperate for arms that Ishapore could not supply due to heavy demand (or so I'm guessing), hence why my rifle was shipped to India.

Whatever the past, it's interesting none the less.

I didn't even know this yesterday.
 
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Calum said:
Everything I have read says, N = Nitro proofed.
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What does that mean? Is it a standard finishing process?

Out of curiousity, what does FTR actually mean? I know it means it was refurbished, but to what standards, and by whom?
 
India played a very prominate role in the history of the Enfield .
"Most often" Ishapore would stamp an "FR " to their
Factory Repairs as opposed to the Brit's "FTR " stamp ( Factory Thourough Repair ).
This " FR " stamp could be on the stocks as well as the receiver .
What I've found uncommon is an Ishapore rifle thats been FTR'd in Britian.
Have you looked under the stocks yet ?
There may be more clues there.
Nice rifle ;)
 
The marking looks similar to an inspector's mark. Crossed pennants or lances are usualy a proof marks to witness the successfull testing of the barrel and/or receiver. On an Enfield they are usualy struck on the barrel knox form to the side, not the top.

Proof testing in essence is a double or triple strength overloaded round. If the action passes with the proof round, it is considered to be proven safe to use with a regular cartridge.

The crown over N over number is similar style to that used by Commonwealth inspectors at the different factories. Crown over E over number for Enfield, or B for Sparkbrook, or script B for BSA, or H for Henry Rifled Barrel Co, or X for London Small Arms, etc, etc.

Inspector marks help tell the story of a rifle or bayonet. That is why I pick up the old beater rifles with lots of stamps, they talk to me more than a minty examples with one set of stamps.
 
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