whats wrong with a Remington MLS 50 cal
- Thread starter cdnrokon
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You can pick up a new Omega Z5 for $330 which are one of the best "Modern" muzzleloaders on the market.
Bolt action muzzleloaders are pretty much a thing of the past with all the new break actions comming out.
Cheers!!
Bolt action muzzleloaders are pretty much a thing of the past with all the new break actions comming out.
Cheers!!
Epps had some overstock 50cals for $249, might explain it. Also Remington has come out with a new break action muzzleloader wich seem to be all the rage lately. Also for the price of a Remington I can get the savage and shoot smokeless. Hard to say exact;ey but they have really taken a nose dive.
b.c doesn't have a muzzle loading season [ontario does ,is that right?"] i/ve noticed in my area ,a traditional hawken ,kentucky or simular are more popular.there is a good crowd of people who are envolved in rendezvous and black powder shoots that require a traditional style muzzle loader.i would be interested in knowing what provinces have a muzzle loader season.
Yep, BP season here in Ontario - but those new fanged in-lines are (IMHO) just an excuse to basically rifle hunt another week. Personally, I prefer the extra challenge of using traditional C&B muskets or flinters for muzzle-loading season. Definitely adds to the experience in my view 
The meat hits the freezer on tag #1 during rifle season, the ML season is, for me, just a challenging and entertaining way to try and fill tag #2
The meat hits the freezer on tag #1 during rifle season, the ML season is, for me, just a challenging and entertaining way to try and fill tag #2
I agree with you, however, I simply cannot commit to using a traditional ML guns simply due to the fact that I have a personal ethical concern. Personally, the inline ML's that I use are ballistically far superior and more accurate than the traditionals. Therefore, when given the choice, I will use inline for hunting big game.
For example, I shot a huge buck last year, and as it turns out the shot was less than ideal, a combination of fading light, bad angle, and of course buck fever. I strongly believe that a perhaps a round ball would not have killed my deer, and would have probably left it wounded due to poor penetration. I admit, I was lucky and the deer was down and out within 75 or so yards, but it makes me appreciate the modern ML's that much more.
For example, I shot a huge buck last year, and as it turns out the shot was less than ideal, a combination of fading light, bad angle, and of course buck fever. I strongly believe that a perhaps a round ball would not have killed my deer, and would have probably left it wounded due to poor penetration. I admit, I was lucky and the deer was down and out within 75 or so yards, but it makes me appreciate the modern ML's that much more.
It seems to me that those who have ethical concerns about shooting roundball at relatively close range should shoot modern centerfire suppository guns. The whole challenge of muzzle loading with roundball and traditional guns is to get close enough to permit good shot placement and to only shoot when you know that you can put your shot exactly where you aim it.
The modern inlines with sabots were used as an excuse to eliminate the only muzzle loading season we had here in BC. If you want to hunt with a modern rifle fair enough, but it seems to me that a person is just playing head games if they feel that an inline with a scope and sabots etc is recreating the good old days of muzzle loading as opposed to getting a bit longer season with a modern gun.
cheers mooncoon
The modern inlines with sabots were used as an excuse to eliminate the only muzzle loading season we had here in BC. If you want to hunt with a modern rifle fair enough, but it seems to me that a person is just playing head games if they feel that an inline with a scope and sabots etc is recreating the good old days of muzzle loading as opposed to getting a bit longer season with a modern gun.
cheers mooncoon
i tend to agree with mooncoon ,the challenge is to put yourself in a position where you are confident with your shot.i have a 54cal hawken rifle,and just wouldn't bother with shots over 100 yards,at ranges beyond this i tend to throw out some flyers.the west coast is very thick with brush and low growth,so viable shots tend to be very close.i/ve tried twice in the last two years to hunt with this rifle and come home empty handed[had a black bear and deer tag,seen both,but just couldn't put myself in a position to take a shot] had a good time anyways,saw some animals and hopefully learned some skills.i don't normally take this rifle but,a 54cal round ball shouldn't have any problems dropping a large animal at the ranges i try for.
I would have to believe that the bolt-action ml is losing its grip on the market and being overtaken by break action or falling block types.I 1st noticed this when the North American Hunting Association dropped the Knight in favour of the T/C Omega,as well too,SIR has lesscatalog listings on the Knight or Rem. with most the attention going to the T/C ml's.
But,I too have tried selling my NEF Huntsman .50cal ml a few times here with no interest from any buyers,I'll just hold on to it for when my son grows up.
But,I too have tried selling my NEF Huntsman .50cal ml a few times here with no interest from any buyers,I'll just hold on to it for when my son grows up.
Remington 700's
are also dirty in the breech area after shooting. If I could get rid of mine I would. It is accurate but the break opens are far nicer to clean. Just compare a Rem 700 that has been shot about 20 times in a row to a break open. My scope has permanent discoloring on it from the hot gases escaping the nipple. The bolt has to be torn apart and cleaned to avoid gumming up. PR bullets of Anola,MB used to make a conversion for it which used I believe 32 ACP case. It ended up being much cleaner. I plan on buying a break open in the near future. I like the fact that I can work the trigger like a centerfire and it is fairly accurate. Besides that I feel my T/C Hawken was easier to clean than it.
Calvin
are also dirty in the breech area after shooting. If I could get rid of mine I would. It is accurate but the break opens are far nicer to clean. Just compare a Rem 700 that has been shot about 20 times in a row to a break open. My scope has permanent discoloring on it from the hot gases escaping the nipple. The bolt has to be torn apart and cleaned to avoid gumming up. PR bullets of Anola,MB used to make a conversion for it which used I believe 32 ACP case. It ended up being much cleaner. I plan on buying a break open in the near future. I like the fact that I can work the trigger like a centerfire and it is fairly accurate. Besides that I feel my T/C Hawken was easier to clean than it.
Calvin
Steyr101 said:
Who said anything about roundball? I now use a .58 Cal 1862 Remington copy caplock musket with 1:66 rifling and 500gr Minie conicals. Trust me when I say, if I do my part it will shoot as well as the Remington in-line and no deer is getting up again if hit.
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This last ML season a buddy of mine got out his break open, scope equipped inline and shot 4 deer with it. He recovered 1. This is by the most expirienced hunter I've met. Talking to others around these parts and local gunshop owners his experience was not too far off many others inline users. So much for ballistic superiority and ethics.
As for accuracy, I've seen guys with roundball shoot tighter groups that centrefires. Thats from a bench with both rifles.
At ML championships some of the targets have 5 bulls where you shoot one shot per bull. Makes scoring easier since some of the shooters with roundball can group so tight that that one jagged hole is difficult to score.
Claven2 has it right as far as I'm concerned. If you hit them with a 58 cal Minnie ball they aren't getting far.
As for accuracy, I've seen guys with roundball shoot tighter groups that centrefires. Thats from a bench with both rifles.
At ML championships some of the targets have 5 bulls where you shoot one shot per bull. Makes scoring easier since some of the shooters with roundball can group so tight that that one jagged hole is difficult to score.
Claven2 has it right as far as I'm concerned. If you hit them with a 58 cal Minnie ball they aren't getting far.
Im not disputing the fact that inlines should be considered traditional... they certainly are anything BUT traditional.
In addition to my inlines, I have a flinter, and a few percussions as well. They shoot very well if I do my part, and im sure they could take game. Im not trying to say they don't or can't. All im saying is that given the choice, I would choose an inline. It all personal preference guys we are all playing the same game, and I dont think we should criticize people for their preferences.
Centerfire guys are looked down upon by hardcore muzzleloaders, and then the traditional guys look down on the inline guys. The same way archers look down on people who use guns of any sort. And then there are the recurve guys who look down upon the compound guys.
In addition to my inlines, I have a flinter, and a few percussions as well. They shoot very well if I do my part, and im sure they could take game. Im not trying to say they don't or can't. All im saying is that given the choice, I would choose an inline. It all personal preference guys we are all playing the same game, and I dont think we should criticize people for their preferences.
Centerfire guys are looked down upon by hardcore muzzleloaders, and then the traditional guys look down on the inline guys. The same way archers look down on people who use guns of any sort. And then there are the recurve guys who look down upon the compound guys.
I'm not looking down on anyone - what I AM concerned with, however, is that currently Ontario views Muzzle-loader hunting on a par with Archery. The season is longer b/c hunters have a much lower success rate using this closer-range and harder to use kit.
In-line's are, basically, just center-fire bolt action single-shots without the brass case. they take ALOT of the difficulty out of black powder hunting. Most in-line shooters don't even use black powder, relying instead on pellets.
If it gets any easier (ie, break-action guns that often aren't even loaded from the muzzle anymore), look to see provinces like Ontario take away the muzzle-loading season and just lump it into rifle season. Don't laugh, it happened in BC.
To me, muzzle-loading isn't about putting meat in the freezer. My .300H&H Remmy 700 is for that. Muzzle-loading season, to me, is about the challenge and thrill of the hunt and bagging the big buck traditionally. It's as much about the one I let slip away because I was using 19th century equipment and didn't want to risk an open sight 130 yard shot as it is about actually shooting a deer.
Too many people look at it as just another week of rifle and that, IMHO, is wrong - it's missing the point. turning the muzzle-loader experience into bolt action scoped hunting is exactly what I don't want to do with that extra week where I'm less likely to encounter other hunters and have a more enjoyable trek through the forests testing my skills.
In-line's are, basically, just center-fire bolt action single-shots without the brass case. they take ALOT of the difficulty out of black powder hunting. Most in-line shooters don't even use black powder, relying instead on pellets.
If it gets any easier (ie, break-action guns that often aren't even loaded from the muzzle anymore), look to see provinces like Ontario take away the muzzle-loading season and just lump it into rifle season. Don't laugh, it happened in BC.
To me, muzzle-loading isn't about putting meat in the freezer. My .300H&H Remmy 700 is for that. Muzzle-loading season, to me, is about the challenge and thrill of the hunt and bagging the big buck traditionally. It's as much about the one I let slip away because I was using 19th century equipment and didn't want to risk an open sight 130 yard shot as it is about actually shooting a deer.
Too many people look at it as just another week of rifle and that, IMHO, is wrong - it's missing the point. turning the muzzle-loader experience into bolt action scoped hunting is exactly what I don't want to do with that extra week where I'm less likely to encounter other hunters and have a more enjoyable trek through the forests testing my skills.
Steyr101 said:
I for one don't look down on centerfire guys nor on inline shooters while hunting in the modern season. I do look down on inline shooters who take advantage of a special season with essentialy a modern gun shooting caseless ammunition and try to suggest that it is a form of traditional hunting as in mid 1800's traditional.
I probably would not care as much if these guns were not used as an excuse to eliminate special seasons intended for guns with limited practical range.
cheers mooncoon
Claven2 said:
I looked throught the Ontario regs a couple times now and I have yet to see anything refering to hunters being restricted to "Traditional" muzzleloaders. It says "Muzzle-loader season" and that means the guy with the scoped TC has the same opportunity to hunt as someone with a Hawkens.
gth said:
You are right - for now. Look at BC, a few years ago their hunting season was the same as Ontario's. Inlines caught on and the province took away the BP season as a result. Too many animals were being harvested.
Ontario could easily follow suit - especially with a Liberal gun-hating gov't.
Right now it's legal, so go hog-wild if you want. Personally, however, I find it distasteful and I'm entitled to my opinion. you won;t see me with an in-line EVER.
Claven2 said:
I see your point, but who's going hog wild. Right now When I buy my deer tags they say "for any open season" or "archery only" on them. I chose to fill 2 or 3 with the bow and rifle and save one for the muzzleloader season. I could just as easily fill them all in the rifle or archery season but I like the muzzleloader hunt also.
We have 2 muzzleloader seasons and more apt to get more seasons added than have them taken away. This just kinda burns me the same as the guys who want a seperate season because they shoot a recurve bow....
