When did WW1 Lees stop coming with mag cutoffs?

TheIndifferent1

TheIndifferent1

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Hey all,
I was at the local archives today looking through an old album of WW1 photos to create a finding aid. One photo had a British or Canadian soldier standing in a German guard hut holding a Lee Enfield with a very long bayo, and it also had a cutoff switch for the mag. On the side of the hut "1914" was painted, but who knows how long it had been there. I'm looking for some help in dating the photo - anyone know when the rifles stopped coming with the cutoffs?

Thanks! :)
 
If it DIDN'T have a cut-off you could reasonably date it to mid 1916+

But there isn't anyway of dating it the other way around. Not all of the manufacturers stopped utilizing the cut-offs & volley sights at the same time.

Cut-offs were not removed from existing rifles during the war, and after the war cut-offs were often added to rifles produced w/out them.

In fact Australian Lithgows can be found with cut-offs until c.1941....

D
 
The List Of Changes (LOC) date it as an officially approved modification for 1917. BSA however had eliminated the fitting of cutoffs as early as 1916 with the milling operation for the slot eliminated within a few months of that. The Govt inspectors passed the rifles and it is assumed that the 1917 date is a catch up on several modifications made to simplify production such as not miaching for or fitting the volley sights! The Cut off was reinstated in BSA commercial and contract production as soon as the war finished and w by Enfield for the No1 MkV.
 
RR said:
Tim
Just 1/2 hr ago I sold a 1943 dated BSA commercial action with cutoff.This was the latest action I have seen one on.
Rich
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Says it all and reinforces my earlier that BSA re introduced the Mk111 post WW1. I have a copy of the BSA history and will check precise dates, like all company write ups its a bit of a puff piece but worth reading none the less!
 
TimC said:
Says it all and reinforces my earlier that BSA re introduced the Mk111 post WW1. I have a copy of the BSA history and will check precise dates, like all company write ups its a bit of a puff piece but worth reading none the less!
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RSAF Enfield certainly did, I have a post WW1 dated MKIII with cutoff



so to answer the original question the fact that the rifle did or did not have a cutoff is not really going to help much in narrowing down the date of the photo.

and when you consider that Canadians were issued Ross and did not officially change over to enfields till June of 1916 but 1/4 of the troops were allready carrying borrowed enfields. You can immagine that if they were able to lose their issued rifles they would certainly be able to lose the cutoff :rolleyes: :D
 
woodchopper said:
so to answer the original question the fact that the rifle did or did not have a cutoff is not really going to help much in narrowing down the date of the photo.
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Thanks for all the good info guys :) The picture is really cool, if I have a chance I'll try to digitize it somehow and post it on here. I can certainly imagine that a lot of enfields were 'borrowed' as of the 25 pictures i've looked at thus far, only one had Canadians with Ross rifles - that was in a colour guard ceremony.

You guys know your #### ;) :dancingbanana:
 
They finaly realised it was as useful as an appendix in the middle of WW1, but then some idiot decided to reinstall it after the war.;)

Consider the expansion of the army in WW1. Cutoffs, volley sights, windage adjustable sights, slowed production. I once knew a man who enlisted in 1915 and went to France with a Long Lee!
 
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JS I have a picture of the same in 1916. RSAF were according to BSA only making pistols, rifle parts and refurbishing rifles during the interwar years. This was apparently due to the very few new rifles needed by the British until 1938 and Munich. BSA had several foreign contracts such as SIAM and Eire. This together with succesful marketing of target and sporting models ensured that all the old actions and barrels were used up ensuring that the factory was making new rifles complete rather than from the massive amount of spares left over in 1919.
 
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