Belgian Bulldog update and "Where to find .450 Adams Revolver ammo??"

CobraGT

CobraGT

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Where to find .450 Adams Revolver (AKA 450 Boxer Mk I, .450 Revolver, .450 Colt, .450 Short, .450 Corto, .450 Mark III, or .45 Webley) ammo??


I've had an old antique Bulldog revolver for years, apparently (maybe) chambered in this caliber, but I've never seen ammo for it. Anyone know where I could acquire some to try it out?

And, I'm 99% sure the answer is a resounding NO!!, but can .455 Webley ammo safely be fired through a .450 revolver? .455 chambers in the cylinder.

Looking at specs for both rounds, the .450 Adams and .455 both have the same neck diameter; .450 bullet diameter is 11.6mm, while .455 Webley bullet diameter is only 11.5mm... so a bullet from a .455 should fit down the barrel! ... perhaps could .455 be safely used, reloaded to lower pressure?

Thanks all!
 
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Try the beaks and brass site. Not loaded cartridges but, Bertram-made, .450 Adams brass is listed as manufactured by the company . May be of some use.
gun boards forum, or cast boolits forum, may be better positioned to answer your question about 455 ammo.
 
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scianna54 said:
Did you measure the bore? You mentioned in your listing that the gunsmith did and it was 44 diameter, the 450 Adams is .455.
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That's what I had initially taken it to the gunsmith for - to make sure it was safe to fire. I don't particularly want to blow myself up! I have no way to measure the bore myself, so I'm taking his word for it. Since I decided not to sell it I'm first seeing if I can even figure out a source of ammo that isn't going to cost me 6 bucks a round before looking at getting the barrel figured out.
 
CobraGT said:
That's what I had initially taken it to the gunsmith for - to make sure it was safe to fire. I don't particularly want to blow myself up! I have no way to measure the bore myself, so I'm taking his word for it. Since I decided not to sell it I'm first seeing if I can even figure out a source of ammo that isn't going to cost me 6 bucks a round before looking at getting the barrel figured out.
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The ammo at $5/piece from rustywood is prices very fairly. You really don't want to shoot 455 Webley, not only because of the diameter but it is too hot and the bullets are hard cast. Also keep in mind that the rim on those probably has to be thin, otherwise the cylinder will not rotate.

I looked at your revolver, should be easy to put it back together IF all the pieces are there. Just send it to Rustywood, have him put it together and check, then sell it. You should get much more than the price you are asking - as I said if all the pieces are there.
 
SigWig said:
Not sure 100% if this is for your gun. You can ask them at CSC they deal antiques

https://store.theshootingcentre.com...5-webley-mk-ii-262-gr-lrn-850-fps-model-455a/
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Yeah, that's the .455 which chambers just fine in the cylinder, but if (if!) my gun was originally made for .450 (there are no markings on the gun anywhere), those rounds will likely be wayyy too hot for it. That's why I was thinking it might make sense to just download .455 to .450 pressure. If that's doable, then I'll just need to see whether the barrel can in fact fire those bullets safely, or whether I'll need to get that figured out.
 
scianna54 said:
The ammo at $5/piece from rustywood is prices very fairly. You really don't want to shoot 455 Webley, not only because of the diameter but it is too hot and the bullets are hard cast. Also keep in mind that the rim on those probably has to be thin, otherwise the cylinder will not rotate.

I looked at your revolver, should be easy to put it back together IF all the pieces are there. Just send it to Rustywood, have him put it together and check, then sell it. You should get much more than the price you are asking - as I said if all the pieces are there.
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That's the thing - I like it, and would rather keep it.... but 6 bucks a round after tax is steep! If that's what ammo is going to cost, I'll put it back together and sell it. If I can down-load .455 ammo (I agree, they are too hot for the gun as loaded, and a buddy of mine reloads) and use it, I'll keep it. It's a nice little gun, and the cylinder rotates fine with..455 brass in it.
 
CobraGT said:
That's the thing - I like it, and would rather keep it.... but 6 bucks a round after tax is steep! If that's what ammo is going to cost, I'll put it back together and sell it. If I can down-load .455 ammo (I agree, they are too hot for the gun as loaded, and a buddy of mine reloads) and use it, I'll keep it. It's a nice little gun, and the cylinder rotates fine with..455 brass in it.
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Personally, I would entertain cutting down 45 Colt if it is handy.
Brass might be too thick, 45 Schofield might be better.
Mind you, I'm a wrench nut, gear head and have a good amount of tools.
Need a drill (press is better), a file, a tubing cutter and a micrometer.
Thin the rim before you cut it BTW.
Do that for an afternoon and tell me 6 $ per is too much...
 
CobraGT said:
That's the thing - I like it, and would rather keep it.... but 6 bucks a round after tax is steep! If that's what ammo is going to cost, I'll put it back together and sell it. If I can down-load .455 ammo (I agree, they are too hot for the gun as loaded, and a buddy of mine reloads) and use it, I'll keep it. It's a nice little gun, and the cylinder rotates fine with..455 brass in it.
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You know 455 brass fits the cyl. Now measure the cylinder throats and slug the bore. That will tell you what diameter bullets you need. Brass can be fairly easily reworked (though it is certainly time consuming).- dan
 
dan belisle said:
You know 455 brass fits the cyl. Now measure the cylinder throats and slug the bore. That will tell you what diameter bullets you need. Brass can be fairly easily reworked (though it is certainly time consuming).- dan
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I had a guy thin the rims of a few hundred pieces of brass for me on his lathe. I sold half off, the rest I keep. Buffalo Arms in the US has everything you would ever need but they don't ship to Canada.
 
My .450 RICs will not accept the short .455 Mk. II cases. It is necessary to trip them. Once trimmed, good to go.
 
If that fella said .44, then have someone slug the bore for sure, you may have a .442 webley, different animal and not a good idea to fire 450 or .455 in it. I have one, liiks the same, thinking of getting it relined to .41 colt. Rusty wood said they could do it, a bit pricey but then can actually make ( or buy) ammo for it!
 
bobdbldr said:
If that fella said .44, then have someone slug the bore for sure, you may have a .442 webley, different animal and not a good idea to fire 450 or .455 in it. I have one, liiks the same, thinking of getting it relined to .41 colt. Rusty wood said they could do it, a bit pricey but then can actually make ( or buy) ammo for it!
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Probably not a .442 Webley. I have one and 44 Russian fits it perfectly. Too small a diameter to fit 455 IIRC
 
You start with the casing first, if 455 Webley fits without trimming the rim, that's a first. Otherwise the rim needs trimming from the inside (not filing down, haha). Then over to the bullet, if it is a 44, find out exactly what dia the throat on the cylinder is and then slug the bore. Measure the rifling (lands and grooves) as well so you know your tolerances. I have some hard cast 44 I used in a Belgian revolver, not the best but I made sure it goes through. I once had an old open top revolver and I was so careful with everything, when I shot it first, you could literally see the bullet flying out. We had a good laugh.

It really is not hard to reload. When I can do it, most can.
 
bobdbldr said:
It is the bore thats the issue.
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I have a 442 Webley... it will not chamber a 455 case
A 44 Russian will likely fall through the cylinder of a 455 / 450.
I know to slug the bore...I'm saying, if it will fit a 455 case...it aint a 442...off the board. So it ain't worth mentioning... IYKYK
And my 442 bore goes from .429>.405" in 2 1/2"
Charcoal burners are spooky to play with...
 
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