Which Dies Do I Keep

waynewjw

waynewjw

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I reload various calibers and in this case referencing .243. I shoot paper and some competitions and want to focus more on competitions. I was able to pickup 150 new Winchester and also 200 new Hornady cases. Along with the Hornady cases was a RCBS 2-die set (I’m assuming the dies are new as was the cases). I currently have the Hornady Custom Grade 2-die set and Lee Deluxe die set including collet die.

Which die set do I keep to start reloading the new brass? I’ve used both the Lee and Hornady die set and lean towards the Lee set, seemingly giving me better shoulder setback. I think the Hornady die set should be more accurate but can’t seem to get the FL die to properly setback the shoulder. More experimenting to be done.

I’m only setting back 1-2 thou and will anneal after every 100 rounds fired. Also need to develop a new load as the Hornady 105 grains I used are no longer made so now have 500 rounds of Barnes Match Burner bullets which should keep me in bullets for this coming season.
 
There is no reason you can't mix and match.

The basic 2-die RCBS are crap, get rid of those.

The Hornady Custom Grade chamber type seater, with micrometer head is the best bullet seater.

IF the Hornady sizer is the neck bushing type then I'd keep that as well. Bushing type seaters are the easiest to use and most accurate. You can also use it as a body die to set the shoulder back.

The Lee Collet sizer is worth keeping as well.

It is not worth making compromises with your die sets in order to get back a few dollars by selling off complete die sets. Sell of the individual pieces you won't use and keep the ones that are worthwhile.
 
Generally, I have found that bullet holes on targets do not lie - is there a difference in your results, one brand of die to another? Maybe get a run-out indicator to see if there is a difference in "straight-ness" of the loads that each will produce. If you can not demonstrate a difference in 5 shot group size at 100 yards - one die to another - is just "busy work fussing" to worry about it.

By the way - I recently came into three sealed bags of new W-W brass for 22-250 - with red/black label - about the crappiest brass I have ever had to deal with - easy 25% of the cases had mouths like a pitcher's pour spout - would not even chamber into the rifle as received. A significant number - perhaps 10% - had folds visible on the shoulders - no doubt they will split there when fired - and that was just in the first bag - is two more here that I am not looking forward to process. In the past, I went through MANY blue label bags of W-W brass and also R-P brass - various cartridges - and had never previously seen as many flaws as in that one bag of new red/black label W-W brass.
 
So I’m starting the process all over with new dies and new bullets. Need to develop a load for accuracy so some experimenting to do. Lots of variables to get there before figuring out which dies to use. I will start with the Lee’s as I’ve got them setup for .01 setback and go from there. Likely won’t have time to get to it til Spring. Regards the necks I didn’t check each one of them, and the Hornady’s are in the mail.
 
Early in my reloading, even before I joined this forum, I screwed up my Lee 30-06 set. My Only Set. In fact my only dies, period. It was my fault and waiting for Lee to send parts, I bought a new RCBS FL die to get back to reloading . Since then I have tried to always have a spare set. I have mostly found them at gunshows rather inexpensively. Though I don't know how I ended up with four 308Norma sets, chuckle.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
There is no reason you can't mix and match.

The Hornady Custom Grade chamber type seater, with micrometer head is the best bullet seater.

IF the Hornady sizer is the neck bushing type then I'd keep that as well. Bushing type seaters are the easiest to use and most accurate. You can also use it as a body die to set the shoulder back.

The Lee Collet sizer is worth keeping as well.

It is not worth making compromises with your die sets in order to get back a few dollars by selling off complete die sets. Sell of the individual pieces you won't use and keep the ones that are worthwhile.
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:agree:
 
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I’ve got rcbs , Lee and a hornady. I honestly find the Lee sets to be the best. The only reason I keep the RCBS sets around is because I haven’t found a Lee set in 6.5x55 or .303 British in my travels.
 
Hmatt said:
I’ve got rcbs , Lee and a hornady. I honestly find the Lee sets to be the best. The only reason I keep the RCBS sets around is because I haven’t found a Lee set in 6.5x55 or .303 British in my travels.
Click to expand...

That’s been my experience with the Lee dies to date on the 243. I found the Hornady dies hard to setup accurately but is likely something I am or am not doing.
 
Potashminer said:
Generally, I have found that bullet holes on targets do not lie - is there a difference in your results, one brand of die to another? Maybe get a run-out indicator to see if there is a difference in "straight-ness" of the loads that each will produce. If you can not demonstrate a difference in 5 shot group size at 100 yards - one die to another - is just "busy work fussing" to worry about it..
Click to expand...

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but finished round runout is not really an indicator of accuracy. Many years ago a friend lent me a runout gauge and I spend all kinds of time sorting ammo into little piles, which I then tested off the bench for accuracy. At the end of the day I had a pile of the worst of the worst left over and rather than pull those bullets I decided to shoot them for S&Gs. Shockingly the absolute worst runout ammo produced a group that was just as good as the best runout ammo. Since then I have never worried about it.



waynewjw said:
So I’m starting the process all over with new dies and new bullets. Need to develop a load for accuracy so some experimenting to do. Lots of variables to get there before figuring out which dies to use. I will start with the Lee’s as I’ve got them setup for .01 setback and go from there. Likely won’t have time to get to it til Spring. Regards the necks I didn’t check each one of them, and the Hornady’s are in the mail.
Click to expand...

10 thou setback is quite a lot. I'd set dies for max 2-3 thou (0.002") setback.



Hmatt said:
I’ve got rcbs , Lee and a hornady. I honestly find the Lee sets to be the best. The only reason I keep the RCBS sets around is because I haven’t found a Lee set in 6.5x55 or .303 British in my travels.
Click to expand...

I have a set of Hornady Custom Grade dies for my 303. They work well.
 
For 303, the Lee Collet die can almost be considered a necessity. Since it doesn't set the shoulder back, or resize the brass, the case length and a chamber oversize are irreverent. Which can be problems, resulting in split cases.

I have Lee, Redding, Hornady, RCBS, CH,Pacific Bonanza, and Forster . If I was to recommend, Forster Benchrest set.
 
I have Lee, Hornady and RCBS they all work fine. I often will size with one than seat with another die interchangably and notice no 'real' difference in groups.
 
The main body part of the die is going to be in spec no matter the brand. But the specs are a range. If you have a couple for the same cartridge, one might resize smaller than the other. It's pretty easy to tell at the press, on the same lot of brass, one will be more effort than the other. Pick the easier one, less working the brass.
 
For .303 Brit, I just let my Lee FL sizing die go only two thirds of the way down the neck.
The body is undisturbed, and the unsized third of the neck helps to center the bullet in the leade of the chamber.
Works well enough for the Burnaby wh0re sized chamber in my No 4 Mk 1.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but finished round runout is not really an indicator of accuracy. Many years ago a friend lent me a runout gauge and I spend all kinds of time sorting ammo into little piles, which I then tested off the bench for accuracy. At the end of the day I had a pile of the worst of the worst left over and rather than pull those bullets I decided to shoot them for S&Gs. Shockingly the absolute worst runout ammo produced a group that was just as good as the best runout ammo. Since then I have never worried about it.
...
Click to expand...

I likely agree - is the holes on the target that tell the tale. Is my thinking that reloaded round straighteness, plus bullet jump, plus the specific load, all work together to make a difference - no one of those things will offset the others - I was playing with a store bought Winchester Model 70 in 338 Win Mag - I satisfied myself that I got better groups with loads that were 0.003" runout or less; versus loads that were 0.004" runout or more - so, in the end, I only worked from two piles. As per a John Barsness article, I found that I could get the rounds "straight enough" simply by seating the bullet about half way, then pulling up and rotating the brass about 180 degrees and finish seating. Since those games with that, I have never bothered to measure runout - but that "half and half" seating seems to have become a habit, for all the various cartridges that I reload for. I have never shot targets at a competitive level; never used anything except store bought production rifles - so, if I was looking for ultimate precision, is likely what I would look at again. Is my opinion is all "busy work" for a store bought production barrel and chamber. Others may have arrived at a different opinion.
 
I have been fighting this too, I wish Lee came with the RCBS style locking rings.

My favourite 9x19 die set is a Lyman, the Lee one sticks cases unless I lube them, yes a carbide set. The 222 rem, I had the Hornady sizing die, even lubed cases get stuck in it all the time, got a Lee set and never had a problem again. For 3006 I have an RCBS and Lee, have not used the RCBS yet.

I have some spares and really trying to decide what to get rid of, will probably just keep multiple sets in my cabinet as I will not get their full value back, even for new in box RCBS dies.
 
Current RCBS , Lyman and Redding rings tend to mangle the threads. For a time, RCBS supplied rings that were split like the proper ones are. Hornady, Forster and even Lee have split locking rings available. A lot of guys swap the RCBS and Redding lock rings for Hornady. They are a good deal less expensive than the Forster. The Lee split ones are pretty interesting, they still use the O-ring which allows some float for the die body. Most rams don't line up perfectly.
 
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