Who is reloading 8x60R Kropatschek?

sledge

sledge

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Hi gents - anyone experienced with reloading for this caliber? I have 348 win brass, the dies, and have tried a few test loads. Some wild results though - some great, some crap.
I have experience reloadeding some of the older/oddball stuff, like 6.5x53R, 8x50R, .577, 11mm mauser....everything worked as it should have. But this caliber has been a tougher nut to crack.

Can you shoot me a pm?
Cheers,
 
Tinman204 has been reported as having success with this calibre, using cast bullets and a very fast powder in moderate amounts.

Might be an idea to PM him and ask.

NOT many people using this one these days, despite a goodly number of these wonderful old rifles.
 
They are beautiful rifles and they sell for a tiny fraction what it would cost to produce today.
As for reloading - I am not convinced a .330 bullet in FMJ is prudent, of course with cast it's another story.

Will PM Tinman2004.

I hope to post later this year with pics of my attempts at forming brass (the good the bad and the ugly!), load experimentation, and results downrange.
Thanks,
 
If you look at the original cartridge and compare it to its idiot bastard son, you will discover that the celebrated French 8mm Lebel is nothing more than a short-neck version of the Krop round. When the next pension cheque arrives, I am planning on ordering 100 rounds of Lebel brass from the folks at Trade-Ex.

Yes, I have a Krop around here somewheres as well! And they ARE beautifully-made!
 
I formed my brass from .348 win and used .330 cast. If I remember correctly, my best results came from using trail boss but I lost most of my notes to water damage. It shot fairly well with the cast but the two milsurp rounds I tried didn't even hit the paper. That rifle had a nice bore too. The carbine was a hoot to shoot but I couldn't hit anything with it.
 
Spoke to Mr. Tinman. He said this was the only caliber he gave up on. Reformed 348 Win brass, just like I have. Didn't think it prudent to use .330 FMJs (as I also believe), and stuck with cast. He had issues making a long enough bullet. For him it was the lack of a long enough projectile to get close enough to the lands.

So here are some pics of what I have been working on and my results. Sorry they are not right side up, can't seem to correct this.
IMG_8284.jpg
From left to right. .348 Win brass, formed 348 through Kropatschek sizing die, and 8mm Lebel.
Smellie - it appears 8MM Lebel is too short no?

IMG_8285.jpg
The bullets I used. Far left is a 198gr Prvi .323. Used that with 3031 and Swedish 8x63 surplus powder - horrible results. No group at all. Lots of blowback, gas in my eyes.
The next one went better, that's the middle bullet. It's the 218gr Swedish .323 bullet from the 8x63 surplus ammo. That with 38grs of Swedish powder got me a 1" group at 100yds with one 3 rnd volley, but then the groups opened up. The other groups were 5".
The last bullet was cast - .327s from jet bullets. I used 18gr of 2400 with those. They did ok.

I will take what Tinman said about bullet seating being important and try to seat those long Swedish .323 FMJs on my next batch and see if that makes them more consistent. The .327 cast bullets from Jet are not that long - so I will try them again with bullets seated shallower. How high can I go though???
 

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Your bullets are to small. Accuracy will improve if you use 0.329. The Krop is an over size eight. I have original military rounds which measure 0.329. Find an original round and measure it. Poor information gives poor results. Your choice.

Have you actually run a slug down the bore and measured it ?
What’s the measurement ?
 
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Yes I have slugged the bore. It measures .3155/.3285.
Lots of shooters on gunboards are doing well with .323 bullets. It's all there if you care to read about their posts.

Just like Carcano's are originally .267 but Prvi is still producing ammo in .263. As well as Lebel's being .327 but Prvi selling it in .323. The "normal" 8mms may work. I have been able to reload for both the Carcano and Lebel with incredibly good results. I don't go around reloading these oddball calibers without doing copious amounts of research. However the Kropatschek has eluded me. It's been hard to nail down a primary source - a reloader that has done the trial and error. I did get some info from Tinman and he's given me some ideas on bullet seating depth to try out next.


Snider shooter said:
Your bullets are to small. Accuracy will improve if you use 0.329. The Krop is an over size eight. I have original military rounds which measure 0.329. Find an original round and measure it. Poor information gives poor results. Your choice.

Have you actually run a slug down the bore and measured it ?
What’s the measurement ?
Click to expand...
 
I'd avoid boattails.

Were it me, I would get some of the Woodleigh 250gr 8mm (323") bullets to try.

I suspect the original bullet was similar if not identical to the Austrian 8x50R, a long 244 grain 323" bullet in a 315"/330" barrel.
 
Yes I agree boatails are not the best and would like to try these Woodleigh's out. But they are expensive at a buck+ a bullet with taxes and shipping.
 
I went hunting for my original Krop rounds. Basically they are reading from a low of 0.318 0.323 and two at 0.329. All I can say is I am using Cast 205 gr GC sized at 0.329 and they work. My bore slugs at 0.327. Rifling is excellent. The boat tails may not work well as has been said. I a Lee Enfield that hates them.
 
A combination of a quick powder and a flatbase bullet will solve many of the problems one may encounter with oddball rifles, cartridges.

As a single example, I am getting decent result out of Carcanos with a very quick (not in the book) powder and flatbase 140s, even though they are jacketed. I would think that cast would work even better.

FYI, Midsouth offers TWO moulds that may be of use, both 8mm diameter. They are listed in the SPECIAL MOULDS section on their website at a massive $18.94US each. One is a supposed 215-grain, the other a 225..... which has been known to throw slugs well into the 240-grain range. I am ordering both for my antiques. For the Carcano-inclined, they also have a 170-grain 6.5 mould. These are custom-made Lee moulds and accept standard gas-checks.

Hope this might help SOMEONE!
 
I shoot cast out of mine, over BLACK POWDER.

The cartridge was originally designed for black powder, like the 303 British, then later loaded with smokeless powder. Yes, the 303 British was loaded with strands of Cordite.

I use flat base 235 grain, round nose, flat base bullets as cast from my mold, with No2 lube. I haven't tried to powder coat for this rifle, mainly because of the black powder residue.

I was lucky enough to get a hundred rounds of surplus brass, berdan primed, topped with wooden practice bullets, over some sort of flake powder. Luckily my Dominion berdan primers fit snugly enough to stay in.

I have three of the rifles. I'm only missing the Carbine version. Extremely well made rifles. All three have different bore diameters, ranging from .324 to .328.

They're also quite accurate with the compress black powder charge I use.
 
smellie said:
A combination of a quick powder and a flatbase bullet will solve many of the problems one may encounter with oddball rifles, cartridges.

As a single example, I am getting decent result out of Carcanos with a very quick (not in the book) powder and flatbase 140s, even though they are jacketed. I would think that cast would work even better.

FYI, Midsouth offers TWO moulds that may be of use, both 8mm diameter. They are listed in the SPECIAL MOULDS section on their website at a massive $18.94US each. One is a supposed 215-grain, the other a 225..... which has been known to throw slugs well into the 240-grain range. I am ordering both for my antiques. For the Carcano-inclined, they also have a 170-grain 6.5 mould. These are custom-made Lee moulds and accept standard gas-checks.

Hope this might help SOMEONE!
Click to expand...

My best results came from bullets that dropped out of the 225 Midsouth mould. Its produces a long heavy fat bullet ideal for the Krop. I seated mine as far out as I could and let 'er rip.
 
20200204_103519.jpg

Charge is listed as 71gr (Black Powder), bullet as 247gr jacketed. Looks like it has a wad in the illustration as well.
 

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MiG25 said:
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Charge is listed as 71gr (Black Powder), bullet as 247gr jacketed. Looks like it has a wad in the illustration as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that.

It's pretty close to the charge I load in my cartridges. I use 3FFF powder and my load is slightly compressed with the cast bullet I'm using, which is 10 grains heavier than desporterizer's.

I purposely seat it deeper, to make sure the black powder is compressed. That's the intention of the very long neck, to hold the base of the bullet true to the axis of the bore as it moves forward to engage the leade.
 
desporterizer said:
My best results came from bullets that dropped out of the 225 Midsouth mould. Its produces a long heavy fat bullet ideal for the Krop. I seated mine as far out as I could and let 'er rip.
Click to expand...

I've been there and done that, but have sold my three "Krops".

I made 20 rounds of 8mm Krop from 348, and used a variety of cast bullets: the Lee 0.329; the Midsouth "Maximum" (mine is 0.327" and 245 grs); and I sized down the Lee 0.338" bullet. I have a variety of push-through sizers (one "stock"; one "opened-up"; and one "custom"): 0.329"; 0.330" and 0.332". I used a pistol powder and with and without a gas check.

What does your bore slug to?

We've done a few deals and are local to each other. Contact me when you're ready to discuss.
 
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