Who is salt bath annealing and what are the pros/cons?

Ghillbert

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So as I get deeper into reloading I need new equipment for new steps. The latest was neck sizing dies so am comparing to fl sizing as I have to do that first on the once fired brass I have then after they are fire formed I have started neck sizing.
So now the topic of annealing is on the table and setups like AMP are out of my price range so was looking at cheaper setups and diy when salt bath popped up and seems simple enough and fairly inexpensive compared to AMP and similar price ranges of diy kits or setups and has me interested!
I have read a couple threads here on annealing but can’t recall salt bath being brought up so here we are, what are your thoughts?
Thank you
 
After 43 plus years of reloading my own ammunition, I have never annealed squat!.....:):LOL:

Now all I see is you have to anneal.:ROFLMAO::oops:

Why don't you get a massage table, along with a sauna or hot-tub for your brass as well!:ROFLMAO::love:;) Maybe some hookers and blow for your brass too!:ROFLMAO: Obviously you want them to be comfortable......:)

Why does everyone now feel that annealing is absolutely necessary?

I understand the concept, however after 43 years and shooting over 5000 rounds per year, why is annealing even needed?:unsure:

I think one should just reload, shoot, and repeat to have fun. Creating another step in the reloading process isn't always necessary?

Is it?:unsure:
 
I had looked into trying to set up that system but in the end just went with a BurstFire unit. I'm still interested to know if others are doing the salt bath. Cheers
 
After 43 plus years of reloading my own ammunition, I have never annealed squat!.....:):LOL:

Now all I see is you have to anneal.:ROFLMAO::oops:

Why don't you get a massage table, along with a sauna or hot-tub for your brass as well!:ROFLMAO::love:;) Maybe some hookers and blow for your brass too!:ROFLMAO: Obviously you want them to be comfortable......:)

Why does everyone now feel that annealing is absolutely necessary?

I understand the concept, however after 43 years and shooting over 5000 rounds per year, why is annealing even needed?:unsure:

I think one should just reload, shoot, and repeat to have fun. Creating another step in the reloading process isn't always necessary?

Is it?:unsure:
I’m pretty new at reloading about a year now so I have alot to learn, maybe I don’t need to.
Are you getting many reloads before replacing ? Im just getting to 3rd and 4th loads on this brass so far and no, no issues yet but yes its talked about alot so I am curious if it is worthwhile for me vs just replacing when it goes.
I like some of your ideas but not sure if my brass will share those creature comforts with me so might get expensive with no upside to me 😆
Thanks for the reply, good to hear that it isn’t necessarily a need.
 
salt bath annealing I get some molten salt residue on the necks and then drop them into a pail of water to cool. Time required to dry. Primers have to (should) be out before dipping in salt bath.
It works though and has good consistency.
If I had the extra money I would go with a fire system or ultimately the electric system. But the best way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire and get into reloading. 😄. I did the torch and socket before as well but question my consistency in my timing.
 
I’m pretty new at reloading about a year now so I have alot to learn, maybe I don’t need to.
Are you getting many reloads before replacing ? Im just getting to 3rd and 4th loads on this brass so far and no, no issues yet but yes its talked about alot so I am curious if it is worthwhile for me vs just replacing when it goes.
I like some of your ideas but not sure if my brass will share those creature comforts with me so might get expensive with no upside to me 😆
Thanks for the reply, good to hear that it isn’t necessarily a need.
I shoot magnums with heavy shoulder cartridges. Short mags mostly. They have a lower life expectancy than straight wall or light shouldered cartridges. So yes case life is longer with annealing. It also can produce more consistency from reload to reload as well. Cheers
 
salt bath annealing I get some molten salt residue on the necks and then drop them into a pail of water to cool. Time required to dry. Primers have to (should) be out before dipping in salt bath.
It works though and has good consistency.
If I had the extra money I would go with a fire system or ultimately the electric system. But the best way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire and get into reloading. 😄. I did the torch and socket before as well but question my consistency in my timing.
Ok thanks good to know
 
I shoot magnums with heavy shoulder cartridges. Short mags mostly. They have a lower life expectancy than straight wall or light shouldered cartridges. So yes case life is longer with annealing. It also can produce more consistency from reload to reload as well. Cheers
Ok, thanks.
So far I am only loading .223 and .308
 
I always wondered if salt bath annealing had the potential to turn your ammo corrosive if you didn’t wash the brass afterwards
Military surplus ammo that is corrosive is because of the salts in the priming compound, salts in the neck/case do the same thing?
I have the flame annealer that’s made in Serbia and it works for what I need it to
I only anneal once In a while just to extend brass life
 
I always wondered if salt bath annealing had the potential to turn your ammo corrosive if you didn’t wash the brass afterwards
Military surplus ammo that is corrosive is because of the salts in the priming compound, salts in the neck/case do the same thing?
I have the flame annealer that’s made in Serbia and it works for what I need it to
I only anneal once In a while just to extend brass life
It could cause corrosion, oxidation, and tarnishing and not rinsing the residue will gum up yer dies as well, makes sense.
 
The biggest improvement in my shooting has resulted from annealing every time and a chronometer.
Quality brass with mild loads can hold decent but not fantastic accuracy for several reloads.
AMP is the best but most of us do not need an induction setup.
Watch the Eric Cortina vids on YouTube, annealing is far from some elusive art.
You got to really try hard to over anneal by flame and ruin brass. Use Tempilaq 750 heat indicator to get a feel for what to look for.
It's really only the LR hunting crowd, target shooters and competitors that need to bother with annealing. Your time is better spent picking bottles if you think reloading saves money.
 
The biggest improvement in my shooting has resulted from annealing every time and a chronometer.
Quality brass with mild loads can hold decent but not fantastic accuracy for several reloads.
AMP is the best but most of us do not need an induction setup.
Watch the Eric Cortina vids on YouTube, annealing is far from some elusive art.
You got to really try hard to over anneal by flame and ruin brass. Use Tempilaq 750 heat indicator to get a feel for what to look for.
It's really only the LR hunting crowd, target shooters and competitors that need to bother with annealing. Your time is better spent picking bottles if you think reloading saves money.
Gotcha! Thanks for the info. Heheh ya saving money sure ain’t happening but the satisfaction of making as good and better than I can buy keeps me going! To coin a phrase from the movie snatch “ I’m proper fooked “
 
The chief pro of salt bath is the precision and consistency with which the heat can be applied. Modern digital controllers that cost 25 bucks can hold temperatures to within a degree. Heat transfer rates from a liquid to a solid are orders of magnitude higher than gases to solids, so if you immerse a case to a certain level annealing will take place in the immersed regions almost instantly, while areas just a couple of millimeters above the liquid line will take several seconds to anneal. You know what a .22 TCM is? Try to anneal of those, or even a .22 Hornet, with a flame and consistently anneal just the neck. With salt bath it's a piece of cake.

The biggest con currently will be availability, particularly of the salt. I sold the kits and supplies from 2017-2022; I was buying the blended salt from Park Thermal in Milton, ON. But then Park dropped the salt business and suddenly I had to buy from Durferrit in Germany. The salt from them was ground much finer and raised a lot of dust. The paper packing absorbed moisture and allowed the salt to clump. And the price doubled. You can try to make your own but potassium nitrate is regulated as an explosive precursor and sodium nitrite is regulated as an aquatic toxin so it will not be easy. The other bits and pieces I manufactured can be replicated but honestly the tools and designs I had were, in my opinion, pretty slick. Something you cobble together probably won't work as well.

The cons side of the equation got worse when I used my resources to really dig into annealing. I confirmed to myself that virtually everything shooters think they know about annealing is wrong. It was difficult to market a product starting with the premise that the customer has to be re-educated. And I had no interest in simply repeating the falsehoods to drive sales. I never once mentioned in my promotions or on my website that salt bath annealing could improve accuracy. But I was acutely aware that most of my customers were buying it for that purpose. The induction systems caught the imagination of a lot of people, sales of salt bath stuff went into decline so when the salt became a headache I just abandoned it. I see kits pop up on the used market from time to time, but the salt does run out eventually. You get something like 5000 cases annealed per jar of salt.

Why does everyone now feel that annealing is absolutely necessary?
I completely agree the need is overstated. The only proven benefit of annealing is to prevent neck cracking. Neck cracking is caused by corrosion in storage. Whether or not your ammo suffers depends on where it is stored, and how long, which is why some people experience neck cracks and some do not. I used to get about 80% neck cracking every spring of the .223 and .308 ammo I had reloaded the previous fall for my AR15 and M14 rifles. If you are not experiencing something like that, you probably don't need to anneal.

Just hold the brass and flame on till too hot to hold. Jeez
I hate this approach. Given the high conductivity of brass, the cases go from perfectly comfortable to painfully hot faster than human reaction time, meaning you will cause yourself physical pain with each and every case. Why would anyone do that? Count the seconds or watch for colour change or something.

I always wondered if salt bath annealing had the potential to turn your ammo corrosive if you didn’t wash the brass afterwards
Military surplus ammo that is corrosive is because of the salts in the priming compound, salts in the neck/case do the same thing?
I have the flame annealer that’s made in Serbia and it works for what I need it to
Salt bath uses nitrate salts, which are essentially non-corrosive to iron and copper based metals. Priming salts, road salts, sea salts and table salts are chloride salts and yes, they can cause significant corrosion.

For those who do want to anneal, I would also recommend an automated flame setup of some kind for most cases. The truth is the fantastic precision and consistency of salt bath is not needed for most applications. The window of temperature that relieves stresses enough to prevent stress-corrosion cracking without affecting the case microstructure is huge, 450-600°C. And frankly, I've seen no evidence that "overheating" the cases to 800°C causes any real problems (induction annealers do it all the time).

Admittedly if you've got a .22 TCM you're kind of stuck.
 
The chief pro of salt bath is the precision and consistency with which the heat can be applied. Modern digital controllers that cost 25 bucks can hold temperatures to within a degree. Heat transfer rates from a liquid to a solid are orders of magnitude higher than gases to solids, so if you immerse a case to a certain level annealing will take place in the immersed regions almost instantly, while areas just a couple of millimeters above the liquid line will take several seconds to anneal. You know what a .22 TCM is? Try to anneal of those, or even a .22 Hornet, with a flame and consistently anneal just the neck. With salt bath it's a piece of cake.

The biggest con currently will be availability, particularly of the salt. I sold the kits and supplies from 2017-2022; I was buying the blended salt from Park Thermal in Milton, ON. But then Park dropped the salt business and suddenly I had to buy from Durferrit in Germany. The salt from them was ground much finer and raised a lot of dust. The paper packing absorbed moisture and allowed the salt to clump. And the price doubled. You can try to make your own but potassium nitrate is regulated as an explosive precursor and sodium nitrite is regulated as an aquatic toxin so it will not be easy. The other bits and pieces I manufactured can be replicated but honestly the tools and designs I had were, in my opinion, pretty slick. Something you cobble together probably won't work as well.

The cons side of the equation got worse when I used my resources to really dig into annealing. I confirmed to myself that virtually everything shooters think they know about annealing is wrong. It was difficult to market a product starting with the premise that the customer has to be re-educated. And I had no interest in simply repeating the falsehoods to drive sales. I never once mentioned in my promotions or on my website that salt bath annealing could improve accuracy. But I was acutely aware that most of my customers were buying it for that purpose. The induction systems caught the imagination of a lot of people, sales of salt bath stuff went into decline so when the salt became a headache I just abandoned it. I see kits pop up on the used market from time to time, but the salt does run out eventually. You get something like 5000 cases annealed per jar of salt.


I completely agree the need is overstated. The only proven benefit of annealing is to prevent neck cracking. Neck cracking is caused by corrosion in storage. Whether or not your ammo suffers depends on where it is stored, and how long, which is why some people experience neck cracks and some do not. I used to get about 80% neck cracking every spring of the .223 and .308 ammo I had reloaded the previous fall for my AR15 and M14 rifles. If you are not experiencing something like that, you probably don't need to anneal.


I hate this approach. Given the high conductivity of brass, the cases go from perfectly comfortable to painfully hot faster than human reaction time, meaning you will cause yourself physical pain with each and every case. Why would anyone do that? Count the seconds or watch for colour change or something.


Salt bath uses nitrate salts, which are essentially non-corrosive to iron and copper based metals. Priming salts, road salts, sea salts and table salts are chloride salts and yes, they can cause significant corrosion.

For those who do want to anneal, I would also recommend an automated flame setup of some kind for most cases. The truth is the fantastic precision and consistency of salt bath is not needed for most applications. The window of temperature that relieves stresses enough to prevent stress-corrosion cracking without affecting the case microstructure is huge, 450-600°C. And frankly, I've seen no evidence that "overheating" the cases to 800°C causes any real problems (induction annealers do it all the time).

Admittedly if you've got a .22 TCM you're kind of stuck.
Thank you for this very informative reply. You answered so many of my long standing questions about the process. Cheers
 
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