Who uses the X-ball program from Nightforce?

Glock-a-maniac

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I'm considering taking my accuracy to the next level by getting into taking a palm pilot equipped ballistic program out shooting with me. Who uses this program and and is it effective? I realize there are FREE programs out there but not one built around the Nightforce scope. Give me your feedback.
 
One thing the palm version doesn't do is the ability to export your data to an Excel spread sheet program so you can print off range cards. Only the pc version has this ability. So, you're going to be constantly dependent on the palm.

For me, I'd like to keep things k.i.s.s. and just buy the pc version, print off & laminate range cards based on various temperature, barometric pressure, and humidity values.
 
With any ballistics program, Sierra or JBM, play around with environmental conditions to see how much effect it has over the range of conditions/distances you want to reach out.

I found that the differences, on paper, were not enough to worry about when shooting in similar locations and moderate ranges (out to 1000yds). Until there is very large differences in elevation which can lead to diff in air pressure and humidity AND you start poking beyond 1000yds, doesn't amount to much.

Most LR shooters still play well inside 1000yds. Alot of field shooting is done on fairly large targets so errors in these calculations get masked by positive results.

Ambient temp/humidity and its affect on your rifle barrel, stock, ignition system, load, and optics MATTER. This is something no data system even hints at, let alone try and resolve. The only way to know is to shoot under those conditions.

What we also can't monitor is light - amount, distortion due to humidity/mirage/lattitude, and most important of all - location of the Sun. All of this has a very dramatic affect on our 'apparent' POA - what we see or think we see through our scope. That is a tremendous source of error. Almost as much as wind.

Ask any competitive shooter if they leave their scopes/sights at the same settings over the course of a match. This under known distances and environment.

I hope you guys are also investing in Kestrels to keep an eye on winds knowing that it only gives you wind at your location and doesn't account for all those funcky winds between you and the target. Anyone shooting at Summerland knows all about that.

All this number crunching is fun but at the end of the day, will only get you close. It also can create a huge dependence on tech with its inherant reliability issues.

Ammo we can get very close to controlling consistency over a huge temp range. Stocks are pretty much a no brainer. Optics 'should' also be stable. Distances are now exact to +/- 2yds out to a mile+. Wind and atmospheric info very good at your location.

Variables that we have little ways of monitoring are light/sun, the barrel and the shooter.

Jerry
 
I'm considering taking my accuracy to the next level by getting into taking a palm pilot equipped ballistic program out shooting with me. Who uses this program and and is it effective? I realize there are FREE programs out there but not one built around the Nightforce scope. Give me your feedback.

We use it here at the range. It works very well for hunters looking to get a 200yd zero on our 50yd range.

I have used it to produce ballistic tables for our demo DSR rifle and they tracked very well out past 900yds.

I like it better than some of the free programs used in the past, but I have certainly never used them all.
 
like jery said it all is a bunch of SWAG light has made me miss more then once......lol
 
I have the Exball program for my desktop and palm pilot it is bang on like Redleg stated .For the handheld get the PC OS version as the Palm OS will not allow you to adjust your comeups at different ranges when you set your zeros
 
The one thing that I found quite interesting about the X-ball program from what I hear is that because the program was writen especially for the Nightforce scopes, you can enter the scope you're using and what power the scope is set at say 32x as apposed to 22x which is the ranging reticle power and it will give you drops specifically. On the flip side, you're shooting at much closer distances and you've dropped your power down 10 or 12. To have come ups so that you're not trying to work the magic at lower powers would be nice too.
I do agree though that there's no replacement for lead downrange and proper notes taken.
 
The one thing that I found quite interesting about the X-ball program from what I hear is that because the program was writen especially for the Nightforce scopes, you can enter the scope you're using and what power the scope is set at say 32x as apposed to 22x which is the ranging reticle power and it will give you drops specifically. On the flip side, you're shooting at much closer distances and you've dropped your power down 10 or 12. To have come ups so that you're not trying to work the magic at lower powers would be nice too.
I do agree though that there's no replacement for lead downrange and proper notes taken.

If the program only works at the mag specified by the scope maker for ranging, then it doesn't adjust anything for you. The mil spacings are 'correct' so the output is the same no matter the scope.

The program would be interesting if it compensates for different multiples common with a second focal point scope ie Nightforce, Leupold, Elite and just about every scope found in North America.

Like BDC turrents, be careful and calibrate through real world shooting. Scopes will have some difference in adjustments both visual and mechanical. Have a print out that says so many clicks may not work out as the scope you have may differ a schnick.

Nothing gets rid of real world shooting to confirm operation.

See if the program will allow you to compensate for individual quirks and save/update ie the program says 5mins but your rifle needs 5.5mins

These are very important tweaks that would justify all these gadgets.

Otherwise, it becomes a very expensive piece of paper.

Jerry
 
IMHO, all these electronic "aids" are just fluff. NOTHING beats actual practice, learning your rifle/load combo and using your brain.

We are starting to rely more and more on devices to do our thinking for us.

A hand written "Dope" book and your brain are the two best tools you have..........

Electronics crap out and batteries die.The less you have to carry the better.

The only two pieces of "SWAG/Gucci" kit I would carry is a quality range finder and a Kestral wind meter. BUT, if you are good and know your gear, and can read conditions, you don't need those either.............

SKBY.:evil:
 
Please understand that I purchase/review/develop as much tech as the next guy. Love it actually.

What I found with alot of the ballistic stuff is there is too much faith put on it. They don't work all that well because they must be too simplistic. The true number of variables you calculate as you look through the scope would require some pretty fancy computing to get close.

Bullet within min of bad guy...sure, maybe, but for pop can type accuracy, better start burning powder.

What a hand held device can give me, I can easily put onto a laminated drop card. From there, observation and experience will help account for variations from the norm (data card).

There is a belief that by punching in a few atmospheric numbers, the new generated data is somehow perfect for all distances. THEY AREN'T - real world shooting will quickly prove this. If not, I would own the lastest versions.

What troubles me is that this tech is making it into the hands of would be LR hunters. They feel that when armed with the lastest monster magnum in a 'custom' rig topped by some picket fence reticled 'tactical' scope, they can just dial up and shoot at extreme distances.

Leads to alot of misses and potentially wounded game.

Can this tech help. You damn rights. I will not go without my laser rangefinder (there is way too much error in reticle subtension as distance grows). I have even made the investment to a Swaro because this is so critical to LR success.

Looking into the various Kestrels as my next investment because it will aid in relative wind measurement. Gives me a way to put a wind speed on what I observe along the bullets path.

From there, we need to know wind direction, anything that might cause wind eddies, light/mirage/sun location, anything that can influence the bullet path and our perception of such.

By the time you have figured all this stuff out, you already know the answer the computer is going to spit out. If you can't figure this out, you can't input it into the computer so the computer is of little help.

garbage in - garbage out.

When there is a system that will actually deal with real world conditions and give me consistent reliable data, I will buy it if I can afford it.

If this is too critical or considered a hijack, I apologise but sharing some real world experiences.

Jerry
 
Jerry - don't apologize, your knowledgible opinions can sure help a fella get his head on straight....too easy to get carried away with tech, and $$$ these days.......Thanks.
 
I have one and i love it. Dropped a coyote last year at 455 yards with the 1st shot using my 223 with the program. Mine is in my palm pilot, great system and easy to use
 
I have been using the NF program for years now on palm and desktop. They are both very good but I still print, laminate, and para-cord a dope card to all my rifles (varmint, hunting, long range, everything). The card is the best reference when you have to set up quick and make that shot 30 seconds ago.

I just picked up an iPhone 4 and downloaded 'BulletFlight' for $30 from the apps store, there's three different price points for this program and $30 is the highest. It's seems to have all the same stuff as the NF but it runs dammm smooth and like all iPhone apps it has a really nice human/computer interface. I haven't used it yet in the field but just running a few quick numbers into it and it seems dead on with NF.

If you have an iPhone it would be worth your money and if you have a Blackberry you should really get a iPhone.
 
Have both, they work well. As Mystic says, you need to tweak the program to your shooting area and gun. Lots of other variables besides the program.

That being said I'm usally within a foot of what the program says....a good start
 
I have an Android phone and use the Shooter app.. Mostly because I always have my phone with me.. A lesson I learned before one of the ALRC when I had to lay down beside some one with more experience and let them help me spot hits because I didn't have my laptop with me..Remember??

I use Exbal on my laptop and my shooting partner has a palm running the windows OS version.. Both are accurate enough for what we do.. But we have both gone to phone based systems (Android for me and iPhone for him) simply as it is one less thing to pack with us out to the field..

Just my 2 cents.. and worth both pennies..
 
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