Why are there calibre regulations?
- Thread starter mr00jimbo
- Start date
mr00jimbo said:
in bc it is perfectly legel to hunt anything, except bison, with a 22 centerfire.
i'm thinking that rimfires aren't allowed for big game as they don't have enough jam.
slug only or shotgun with shot only areas are in densly populated areas where. a slug, or especially shot will not travel the distances that a rifle bullet will. remember the warnings on 22LR boxes "dangerous within 1 1/2 miles"?
gunasauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Western Manitoba
You can here in Manitoba. .223 is perfectly legal.....I'll let you know how it works this year
Your right about the liberal Government being stupid and the bureaucracy within the MNR is largely liberal as well.
The caliber ceilings are in high population and built up areas... shotguns for deer when there are lots of hunters afield and the under .270 rule for varmints and the like. Dumb rules for certain but in the grand scheme I suppose it could be worse.
The caliber ceilings are in high population and built up areas... shotguns for deer when there are lots of hunters afield and the under .270 rule for varmints and the like. Dumb rules for certain but in the grand scheme I suppose it could be worse.
True on both counts. A decade ago while working for the government of Ontario I asked a hunter-friendly MNR bureaucrat (there were some around then) about the .275 and under regulation for certain counties in Sothern Ontario.BIGREDD said:
He said it had been on the books for years and was originally introduced to prevent small game hunting in areas of heavier population with common military surplus rifles of the era (e.g. .303, .30-06).
His view was that, given the latent anti-hunting sentiment within much of the MNR, if the issue were reopened it would result in regulations lowering the caliber restriction to .224 or a convoluted formula based on energy and/or caliber. He was adamant it was a matter best left alone.
Interestingly enough, I had just recently acquired a book "Woodland Stalking" written about deer hunting in the UK in which the author explains the relatively recent history of rifle shooting there. The Deer act of 1963 established the legitemacy of using centrefire rifles for deer hunting in the UK which has been the norm ever since. Except for a calibre requirement that rules out use of the .223 for Roe Deer, that are probably more like coyotes in size, the rules seem to make sense and stemmed from British distaste for the effectiveness of shotgun drives for deer that were the norm just before and after the war.
Though advances in shotgun slugs and rifled barrels or choke tubes has changed things alot, the success of rifles in heavily populated England (hardly a gun friendly nation either), offers an example of the potential for safe rifle shooting in agricultural areas. I guess in the meantime that I'll just use my 6.5x55 mausers for coyotes in the south of ON!
Okay, mildly rant mode off...
Frank
Though advances in shotgun slugs and rifled barrels or choke tubes has changed things alot, the success of rifles in heavily populated England (hardly a gun friendly nation either), offers an example of the potential for safe rifle shooting in agricultural areas. I guess in the meantime that I'll just use my 6.5x55 mausers for coyotes in the south of ON!
Okay, mildly rant mode off...
Frank
Beadwindow said:
Funnily enough mate the deer calibres differ for scotland where Roe is legal with a 223, the problem in the South where I am is getting a safe backstop for a military size calibre like 7.62 which will travel about 4 ks. I have started too load 7.62 X 39 to bet a good short range round but to meet the Muzzle energy limits you either need an old reloading manual or start with the maximum load and work up!
We can still shoot deer under pest circumstances or car collision stuff with shotguns using AAA as a minimum but its best not done as some people are twitchy about it. For a long time it seemed that the Derr Act was written to stop ordinary folk who couldnt get a rifle from stalking but that image has died and the elitism is mainly at National Organisation level now than in the field.
I believe that a study was done in Pennsylvania regarding the public safety aspect of using slugs versus rifles for deer hunting. It was found that there were more incidents involving slugs than rifle bullets, based on percentage of rounds fired. Incidents included things like farm outbuildings struck, etc. It was thought that the greater ricochet potential of a slug, compared to a bullet, was a factor. While it is generally thought that slugs, with their shorter range, are safer than rifle bullets in farm country or heavily hunted areas, this was not the case according to this study.
Another consideration is that modern small diameter sabotted slugs, fired from rifled barrels, may have maximum ranges far greater than the old traditional Foster type slugs.
Another consideration is that modern small diameter sabotted slugs, fired from rifled barrels, may have maximum ranges far greater than the old traditional Foster type slugs.
270 limit
As an old timer I will tell you the real reason the 270 limit was put on. Back in the late 40's and 50's the Eatons and Simpsons Catalogues and other outlets were selling 303 Enfields for as little as $9.95. Every Yahoo in the country was blasting around Southern Ontario with their 303.--Hence along comes the 270 limit
As an old timer I will tell you the real reason the 270 limit was put on. Back in the late 40's and 50's the Eatons and Simpsons Catalogues and other outlets were selling 303 Enfields for as little as $9.95. Every Yahoo in the country was blasting around Southern Ontario with their 303.--Hence along comes the 270 limit
- Location
- Miramichi, NB
I have a quick question. In Ontario, are there any caliber restrictions for varmints? Is it like NB where we are restricted to 223 dia. or is it like the west where larger calibers are permitted?
It's a damn shame that common sense can't prevail so that some of these rules established in the 40's and 50's can be amended. I mean, the days of the $9.95 Enfields are long gone and firing a 270 in southern Ontario is definitley no more dangerous than firing an 06 or other caliber above 270. The risk of making it worse by simply re-opening the debate is a scary thought - things are bad enough.
I've often wondered why here in NB we are limited to 223 diameter for varmints. If I remember correctly, if it is outside of deer, moose or bear season, we are not allowed to take anything larger than 223 into the woods. I'm sure Jay or SuperCub will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.
I read about folks out west and I'm envious of their permission to use their 243's and 270's, etc. for varmint hunting and I wonder why do we have to be so different. I mean, look at NB's population - we only have about 800,000 people in the while province. Compare that to the southern Ontario region or some places out west where there is 10 times the people within an area that is 10 times smaller, yet they can use much more powerful calibers. Maybe I should ask some local MNR folks to see what they say.
It's a damn shame that common sense can't prevail so that some of these rules established in the 40's and 50's can be amended. I mean, the days of the $9.95 Enfields are long gone and firing a 270 in southern Ontario is definitley no more dangerous than firing an 06 or other caliber above 270. The risk of making it worse by simply re-opening the debate is a scary thought - things are bad enough.
I've often wondered why here in NB we are limited to 223 diameter for varmints. If I remember correctly, if it is outside of deer, moose or bear season, we are not allowed to take anything larger than 223 into the woods. I'm sure Jay or SuperCub will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.
I read about folks out west and I'm envious of their permission to use their 243's and 270's, etc. for varmint hunting and I wonder why do we have to be so different. I mean, look at NB's population - we only have about 800,000 people in the while province. Compare that to the southern Ontario region or some places out west where there is 10 times the people within an area that is 10 times smaller, yet they can use much more powerful calibers. Maybe I should ask some local MNR folks to see what they say.
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