Why do manufacturers make push feed dangerous game rifles?

Would you buy a pushfeed dangerous game rifle?

  • Yes, I think pushfeeds are fine for DGR's

    Votes: 58 59.2%

  • No, I'd only use a controlled round feed DGR

    Votes: 40 40.8%
  • Total voters
    98
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Why do manufacturers of bolt action dangerous game rifles make push feeds?

I would not buy such a rifle unless it were a controlled round feed.

How many of you would buy a push feed DGR and why?
 
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I like both. In fact I would much prefer a PF over a Ruger or Winchester with feeding issue's.

I am not saying win & ruger are all that bad, but I have had problems with both!
 
I have both types of rifles but I have no real experience hunting Dangerous Game.
I have a C/F in a .338 that I would use if I was hunting in Bear Country. My limited experience allows the assumption that a Controlled Round Feed bolt action rifle is the better choice.
I have done some limited trials at working the bolt with the rifle at severe angles... C/F has definite advantages.
 
Boht work fine, it's the operator that will screw up a PF if they let it.

That being said, I like CRF because there is that tiny extra margin for your error...;)

But use whatever you want...:p
 
BIGREDD said:
I have both types of rifles but I have no real experience hunting Dangerous Game.
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In Ont that would include deer, REDD :D

Best feeding rifles I have ever used are my tang site Rugers :)
The only jammed bolt I used was a CRF Mauser :rolleyes: sure may have been user error but wouldn't have happened with my Rugers.

My vote was for push feed but only because of my experience with said rugers:)
 
Gatehouse said:
Boht work fine, it's the operator that will screw up a PF if they let it.

That being said, I like CRF because there is that tiny extra margin for your error...;)

But use whatever you want...:p
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Same here!!!

CRF was origionally for militry use anyway!
 
There's nothing wrong with P/F actions as long as they feed perfectly. The main advantage of CRF actions is the claw extractor. P/F Rugers have a great extractor. I personally like CRF actions best, but will be hunting northern B.C. this year with my P/F Sako AV .416. I think experience with your rifle is more important than if it's CRF or not. If I was going to Africa or hunting Brown Bears I would probably be packing a CRF.
 
Today.. as near as I can tell... virtually all military weapons (small arms) are pushfeed ....I think their intended targets are pretty dangerous....no?
 
I just went to my shop to try an experiment. I loaded two dummy rounds into a Savage 110 which is a PF. I chambered one round then, without turning the bolt handle down, I drew back the bolt and tried to chamber another. Of course, the second wouldn't chamber because there was already a round in the chamber. The result is a bad jam.

Then I tried the same thing with a Mauser 98. The first round went into the chamber. Without turning the bolt handle down I drew back the bolt to try to chamber another round. The first round came out of the chamber and ejected. The second round chambered properly. No jam.

This is stupid you say? It's not realistic you say? What kind of an idiot would chamber a round then pull back the bolt to chamber another without firing the first round?

Now throw in the abject terror of a young German soldier in the trenches. This is where the CRF was designed to be.

Now think about the mind-numbing terror of having a Cape Buffalo about to turn your body into a red wet spot.

CRF isn't needed for your every-day deer hunt. It is a feature that is only needed when the mind shuts down and there isn't time for rational though - it just has to work. You can't have a jam.

The essence of CRF is the feeding, not the extraction. Fortunately, the extractor is needed in the feeding to lock the round to the bolt well before the round goes into the chamber.

I found this on another site. It's a tribute to the Mauser 98 which is the essence of CRF.

We can reminisce then forget of times long gone
but must remember over a century ago a star was born.
Original design to prototype, unpacking from its crate and factory grease, to first trigger release, through war and peace, regardless we must pay tribute to this ordnance masterpiece.
It was Paul & Wilhelm at Oberndorf Mauserwerke that put this famous rifle in the hand of homeland german, facist Spaniard, cousin fin and tenacious Turk.
The legend of the 98 is fact, not writer’s fiction fantasy or folklaw, but based on true endurance through Boer and two world wars. Many a soldier held the line through the brilliance of design of these two brothers from the Rhine.
As the Kaiser to the Fuhrer he did yield, so do other rifle to the Mauser with one piece bolt, blade eject, controlled round feed and full gas shield.
Accordingly it has made its presence known, next to the still and breathless soldier lying facedown on the hectic battle field all stiff and blood congealed or where its rests quietly in the cabinet of the private collector next to rhino horn, Zulu shield and ivory gold tip fountain pen of well heeled men.
So if you have a custom 98 in your rifle pantry be it 275 Rigby or 404 Jeffery, like an Englishman riding in a Bentley, consider it your entry into the finer gentry.
Much to the praise of seasoned African hunter, it has drilled holes in everything up to and including big tusker.
Open the rails and face the bolt, then chamber in a classic that gives a jolt. What ever that doesn’t fall is not then the Mausers fault.
So whether issued from military store in times of war or long awaited order from the prestigious Holland & Holland showroom floor, be it small calibre or big bore, something that was created on foreign shore still satisfies ardent worldwide hunter and collector smiles galore!
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That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard Mauser98. What moron stalks cape buffalo with a round chambered but the bolt not turned down? Or worse yet, with an empty chamber?

What shop did you go to? Not many shops sell Savage and modern Mauser 98 guns. Also, I;d hardly consider the Savage 110 the pinnacle of push-feed development.

I like CRF. Given the choice, I'd use a CRF Mauser over a Remmy 700 PF. that being said, I wouldn;t feel unsafe with a push-feed rifle either.

this whole PF vs. CRF debate is as old as the bolt action rifle is. There's not clear winner as to the better system. Each has pluses and minuses. Hell, the US Sniper teams use a PF Remington - I'd think their opponents are dangerous, no?

I'm waiting for some bone-head to spew Chuck Hawkes' line about how a PF won't cycle if held upside-down with a bear on top of you. what a load of crap. Grab a Remington 700, hold it upside-down and cycle that action. The round chambers just fine, thank you very much.

Use the gun you have. practice and get good with it, then hunt Dangerous game if you dare - but dwelling one your rifle's type of feed system is SUCH a waste of time.
 
Claven2 said:
That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard Mauser98. What moron stalks cape buffalo with a round chambered but the bolt not turned down? Or worse yet, with an empty chamber?

What shop did you go to? Not many shops sell Savage and modern Mauser 98 guns. Also, I;d hardly consider the Savage 110 the pinnacle of push-feed development.
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Obviously I have to sharpen my writing skills. I didn't mean to imply that that one would stalk dangerous game with one's bolt open or with an empty chamber. The scenario I had in mind was one where the hunter had put a round into a Buff and it charged. The hunter panics and started working the bolt. With the CRF, the hunter may avoid a jam. I was simply trying to demonstrate that a PF can jam easier than a CRF assuming both are functioning properly.

What shop did you go to?
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I would think this was obvious. The shop I referred to was my own in the basement where I tinker and store my rifles.

The 110 may not be the pinnacle but it is a PF and functions like all other PF's. The bolt herds the round into the chamber.

I 100% agree that with practicing and getting good with whatever system you choose.

But there is must be a very good reason CRF style rifles(M98s, M70s, CZ's, 550s, etc) have been and still are the main rifles of choice for people who hunt the dangerous game of Africa and other places.
 
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Claven2 said:
That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard Mauser98. What moron stalks cape buffalo with a round chambered but the bolt not turned down? Or worse yet, with an empty chamber?

.
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It is not the first shot that is the issue. It is the reloading under pressure. People have been known to short stroke the rifle in different ways,
-fire then draw the bolt back half way then move the bolt forward and slam the empty brass back into the chamber,
-fire then draw the bolt back and insert a new cartrige, then without closing the bolt handle draw the bolt back a secone time and try to put another round in the chamber


I almost short stroked a lever action one time. I fired at a bear, missing it with my first shot, fired again hitting it. Then for some reason when I tryed to shoot a third shot my arm was so pumped up and tense I drew the lever down and my arm only went down half way. I almost started to close the lever on the already fired brass but caught my mistake and forced (honestly took a lot of mental fortitude) my arm all the way down ejecting the brass.


I always load up my rounds in the rifle I am going to hunt with and work the action as hard as possible, you would be suprised how many jams you will get doing this. If your feed ramp is not smooth, the round loaded to a bad over all leanght or round nose bullets are used you will often find the round jams in mag (just below the feed ramp) I have done this test on many rifles. the rifles I have got to jam or miss feed are
-Winchester CRF short action 308 (I increased over all leanght and rifle feed good after)
-Ruger push feed/CRF this is one of the odd ball Rugers manufactured durning the switch from PF to CRF (Switched from Fed 130g factory to Winchester 130PP factory ammo and it fed good)
-Mauser 48 (mag follower spring is too weak, round will not be pushed up high enough bolt sides over top of round)
-Parker hale 30-06 (detatchable mag catch would let mag hang down to low bolt would slip over top of shell)
-Ruger 416 rigby (round nose bullets would jam on feed ramp also by working the bolt quickly the soft Norma brass would push the small sholder of the case back and the brass would get stuck in the chamber)


The most likely reason you are going to have a jam up or fail to feed is
#1 You gun (dosent matter what name is stamped on the side) does not work well with the ammo you are using when bolt is cycled rapidly
#2 You screw up and don't use your gun correctly due the ass pucker factor you are experiencing.
 
Not to hijack the thread.......but double rifles come to mind when going after dangerous big game.....why even bother with bolt actions :)
 
Mauser98 said:
Cost would be a big factor.
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Agree on the cost factor.....unless one is looking for a state of the art sxs rifle there are moderately priced ones that will do the job IMHO......came across used Merkel and a Krieghoff sxs double (both .470 NE) tagged for $9k - 12K respectively at Cabelas site a few days ago?

Guess what I am trying to say is that folks who go on african safaris (now-a-days) likely have and spend a lot of money specifically if dangerous game is the quarry.

Apology, did not mean to pirate the actual thread:redface:
 
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I would honestly consider bringing a double-shotgun loaded with slugs to hunt dangerous game - would work as well as anything else in close, is reliable and is cheaper than a double-rifle ;)
 
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