Why is this shotgun selling for only 28,495?

Big Bad

Big Bad

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Dogs and Doubles again.

I don't know, I'm just used to seeing more spectacular prices for 'mint' best guns from makers like Holland & Holland, or especially them. Is it because it has the A&F logo on it? Was it more of a factory production that didn't take a year of manpower to complete? The lack of elaborate engraving? Canadians can only look on of course.

Holland & Holland Royal Best Quality Sidelock 12ga/26.5"


Holland & Holland Sidelock 12ga/26.5″: London best gun specially made for Abercrombie & Fitch Co. New York — Full sidelock with 99% color case remaining. A&F factory logo is inlayed in gold on bottom of receiver. Straight grip stock measures 1 9/16″ x 2 1/16″ x 14 3/8″ over checkered butt, double triggers, splinter forend. This gun weighs 6lbs 9oz. Mint condition. 1962 Mfg. Price: $28,495


https://w ww.dogsanddoubles.com/2021/08/see-this-weeks-5-doubles-you-dont-want-to-miss-61/?fbclid=IwAR2v2HV-UYDt8Ptk6G7FjVDjKF6b0kj8qA5JzMvlJVJTX18E2FLy9--99bw
 
It's not being described as a "Royal", which is the usual designation for H&H's best guns, so I'm wondering if this is a gun that's been bought in from another maker and H&H just put their name on it. I saw a gun like that while visiting a gunsmith one time, an obvious Webley & Scott, but Holland & Holland engraved on the lockplates. Then you get to pay a premium for the name. The condition of this one makes me suspicious that it's been refinished at some point.
 
Short barrels, not the greatest production era for London guns and most importantly, the home market of GB for vintage SxS shotguns is crashing in the face of a buying public that insists on removable chokes in O/U guns.
 
Barrels shorter than 28" really hurt the value according to holts. They recently failed to sell a mint holland n holland brevis which is a royal best grade. It will return in their september auction. Although it could be true that the population with pockets deep enough to buy a holland want only the holland name
 
9.3mauser said:
It's not being described as a "Royal", which is the usual designation for H&H's best guns, so I'm wondering if this is a gun that's been bought in from another maker and H&H just put their name on it. I saw a gun like that while visiting a gunsmith one time, an obvious Webley & Scott, but Holland & Holland engraved on the lockplates. Then you get to pay a premium for the name. The condition of this one makes me suspicious that it's been refinished at some point.
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Actually, if you follow the link to the Guns International for sale listing, it IS described as a Royal. There are also numerous additional photos.

Looks to be in excellent condition.

The only reason I can see for the modest price point is the disgusting A&F logo. Speaking only for myself, I wouldn't want their logo on my Holland and Holland. Wouldn't want a Walmart logo on my Purdey, either.
 
straightshooter said:
Actually, if you follow the link to the Guns International for sale listing, it IS described as a Royal. There are also numerous additional photos.

Looks to be in excellent condition.

The only reason I can see for the modest price point is the disgusting A&F logo. Speaking only for myself, I wouldn't want their logo on my Holland and Holland. Wouldn't want a Walmart logo on my Purdey, either.
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Agreed Straightshooter, if I was buying a gun with a pedigree like this I wouldn't want some retailer's name and logo proudly displayed on it. A Webley & Scott OK, a medium grade Westley Richards maybe, but a best quality Holland and Holland? The price reflects what tasteless ornamentation can do to the value of a best gun. This gun might be of interest to an executive with A&F.
 
9.3mauser said:
It's not being described as a "Royal", which is the usual designation for H&H's best guns, so I'm wondering if this is a gun that's been bought in from another maker and H&H just put their name on it. I saw a gun like that while visiting a gunsmith one time, an obvious Webley & Scott, but Holland & Holland engraved on the lockplates. Then you get to pay a premium for the name. The condition of this one makes me suspicious that it's been refinished at some point.
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Be careful! Where there's big money,there's the criminal element cashing in. There's lots of faked H&H shotguns out there. Rarely,if ever,would we see a used H&H for sale. Anything that's too good to be true,always is.
 
Trimmer 905 said:
Be careful! Where there's big money,there's the criminal element cashing in. There's lots of faked H&H shotguns out there. Rarely,if ever,would we see a used H&H for sale. Anything that's too good to be true,always is.
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I haven’t looked lately but I would guess there are around 100 H&H listed for sale on GI. Not that rare in the US.
 
I kinda figured the 26" barrels and the A+F logo is why it is priced under what you'd typically expect. I think Canvasback's statement about the markey being a bit soft on guns of this type is also a factor.

As to faked H+H guns, wouldnt it be fairly easy to verify? I mean, I hope it would be fairly obvious just looking at fit and finish.
 
I had a very cool A&F gun case, with a serial number. The A&F company historian had no record of any cases of this type and I’ve only seen one or two like it. But the gun that it came with was not original to the case or from A&F. So I sold it.

Now I have a Francotte, imported through VL&D, who were bought by A&F in the late 1920’s that would be perfect for the case.

Isn’t that always the way it goes!
 
Ive seen some stunningly gorgeous A&F guns. Most dont know the companys history as a sporting goods store or the CEO Mike Jeffries remarks in his court case about who they market to. That said some are over the top and not to my liking but i respect a brand that bucks the norm and stays true to their intended market no matter how many times they get sued. I likely wont be able to afford one anytime soon let alone a holland n holland but one can dream
 
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