Why the bend in 30rd AR15 mags?
- Thread starter sxyglock17
- Start date
This actually is not so much about the mags as with the CFC/RCMP lab. It will take someone to import a mag marked for the rem to be refused and take it to a hearing and have the CFC explain to a judge why marking works for the storm but not for the rem. The lab already has the heads up about the rem mags, so their mind will likely not be changed by simply stating you didn't use existing dies. It still fits an AR. So they don't want to see them out there. They don't care how it was made. Wolverine already posted the emails from the CFC on their reasons for refusing the shipment of marked rem mags from c-products.
Cocked&Locked
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- S. Ontario
Armedsask said:
Speaking as a tool and die maker. (pause while I put my shop coat and safety glasses on)
The die quote for 250 grand does sound high. If it was a mil-spec component that runs the cost up due to extra paper work but otherwise I think most press shops could quote lower than that. You could probably run it in a 200 ton press but you would need a long bed. It would be a progressive die but the tonnage requirements would be quite low, as there is very little piercing, just the trim on the perimeter and the embossing or the ridges to add strength. The bending would not require much. It would be a fairly wide die, and have to have at least 6 maybe seven progressions. Or you could blank a left and right side individually and then a front and back piece to be resistance welded in, more hand work, but lower tooling costs, probably a good trade off for low production items. The curve would be the tricky part, if you do it as one piece but I wonder if a straight mag with a follower that has a cant to it would do the same thing? The advantage of duplicating the original curve would be being able to use AR followers, springs and floor plates rather than having to tool for them as well, and that would run the cost up a bit.
If the magazine were manufactured in Canada, sooner or later there would be a court case to clarify whether or not the magazine is for a manually operated rifle or a semi auto. The Wolverine experience suggests that the official position is that because the Remington is designed to accept AR magazines, any Remington magazine is automatically an AR magazine as well. The pistol magazine/carbine situation might be precedent, but it will likely take a court determination. Problem with the court determination is that a loss could result in a conviction for manufacture of a prohibited device.
Over the years there have been a wide variety of aftermarket magazines manufactured for various firearms. The quality has varied widely, and many are outright junk. A magazine isn't quite as simple a device as it appears to be. With improvised tooling and a limited production run, quality could be even harder to maintain.
Over the years there have been a wide variety of aftermarket magazines manufactured for various firearms. The quality has varied widely, and many are outright junk. A magazine isn't quite as simple a device as it appears to be. With improvised tooling and a limited production run, quality could be even harder to maintain.
spi said:
Are you sure about this?? I think the curve is more of a convenience thing "makes the 30rd mag shorter"
20rd mags are straight and how would a curve near the bottom help with chambering a round at the top, chambering rounds properly is the job of the follower,
Some 20s are curved, as well, both AR and factory Ruger Mini-14 magazines. There is a limit on how long a magazine can be straight, given that the rounds taper. Rounds with a pronounced taper require a very curved magazine - the AK or Bren for examples. As far as length goes there is little to be gained by giving a magazine a slight curve, as is done with 30 rd. AR mags.
tiriaq said:
I do see your point, however the black letter law says nothing about what magazine the gun is designed to use. The definition(s) of prohibited mags only refer to a magazine designed or manufactured for use in.....
The problem is the definition is not completely explicit. Prior to the CX4 Storm interpretation, the common logic seemed to follow that the two criteria, designed for and manufactured for, were equivilent elements and that either would satisfy the definition of prohibited.
After the CX4 interpretation, the RCMP seemed to present the case that manufacturers intent was the deciding factor. Clearly the CX4 mag was designed for a pistol. It was manufactured on the same tooling as a pistol mag, to the same pattern and to the same tolerences. The single difference was the factory marking indicating that product was intended for a rifle.
Either that interpretation is correct, and the CX4 marked mags are intended for a centerfire semi auto rifle, or they have made an error. If there origional interpretation is correct, than there current opinion on factory marked 7615 mags is contradictory. I suspect the logic that they are using, obscuring the issue with the matter of the mag adapter, is simply an effort to not be the department that allows 30 round mags.
Most of our guns laws are based on a desired outcome. They are then written by bureaucrats to comply with those desires. The technical details are more or less irrelevant. The bottom line is they don't want you to have mags over 5 rds in your AR, and they will do just about anything to prevent you from using the letter of the law against them. Stalling, crazy "interpretations", court cases, statements in brochures, you name it.
OZZ said:
I am absolutely certain. And I am certain that you are wrong. Chambering rounds properly is the job of the magazine, the magazine well, the magazine catch, and the chamber throat, not just the follower. That includes the magazine shape, the spring, and the mag lips as well as the follower. It is a complex relationship that must be fully understood and balanced to achieve reliability. It is hard to get right and that is why so many aftermarket mags are unsatisfactory. And yes, this is speaking from the experience of having scratch designed and built mags myself - frequently unsuccessfully.
RevolverRodger
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I wouldn't waste my time with such a project...
CanAm said:
I agree ... I get the impression that they are stalling like crazy in the hope they can hold on until the Liberals are returned to power. This CPC stuff is a little too uncertain for their taste. God knows, the Conservatives might actually go totally wild and enact some laws which appeal to the people who voted for them, financed them and worked on their campaigns ... in the meanwhile stalling and obfuscation is the order of the day.
In the final analysis, what the bean counters and Sir Humphreys of Canada want may matter little, since the only laws worth anything are the ones that the average guy actually obeys. Given all the full capacity magazines out there limited by a single, flimsy rivet and limited law enforcement resources its only a matter of time before the mag limits become as widely ignored as the registration of 'long arms'.
