Why were M14 magazines not designed to drop free?

Gothmog

Gothmog

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Does anyone know why this feature was not made part of the M14 system? Were they intended to use stripper clips, or was 'drop free' just not thought of yet. I suppose it can't be the latter because the M1 Carbine mags drop free when released .... any thoughts guys?

On a slightly different line, can an M14 be reworked (safely and easily) to make it drop mags free when released?
 
One theory I have read was simply because the magazine was intended to be retained...the US Army wasn't made of money and they couldn't have their G.I.s running around, losing valuable magazines!:) Magazines were designed to be reloaded using stripper clips, hence the charger guide on the rifle. I've seen magazine loading tools as well that are similar to the chargers used with the AR mags. However, with a little practice, mag changes can become almost as fast as if they were dropped free. Personally, I wouldn't mess with it. But then again, its not my rifle! You're not really a gunNuts unless you've tweaked at least one of your own guns right?
 
Actually I believe that they weigh too much and the wood stock probably caused the Amis problems.

But think about it; a 20 round mag of 7.62 vibrating around under a FA/SA battle rifle? That would put a huge amout of strain onto a latch (and the mag notch)....

About half-way thru in the FN-FALs development they changed from a "drop free" mag to the "rear latch, front camming" one they have now.
 
Before the m-16, few if any (carbine the exception) rifles had drop free mags. And as often as not you loaded with clips, not mag changes. SMG's with their higher rate of fire mostly where drop outs, (and the carbine probably belongs more in this catagory anyways.) The ag42 was issued with one mag, and most rifles had a clip notch in them to allow mag recharges. I'm not sure if the CF originally issued the FN with one mag or if they always used multiples, any old time infantry people here from the adoption period?
I don't think they expected people to carry multiple steel mags ontop of the ammo load. Even handguns anywhere other then north america (until recently) didn't have the mags drop free. With the somewhat awkward mag release on the M-14, I think you'd be better served and just as fast stoking her with the stripper.

My thoughts, just speculation....:redface:
 
Not everyone does or did beleive that drop free mags are a good idea. Latching is less secure, it is possible for the mags to drop free accidentaly, and at the time the FN and M14 were introduced they were replacing rifles with 5, 8 or 10 shot capacities with rifles that had 20 and 30rd capacities so fast reloading was not a consideration.
 
Well, at the ridiculous end of the spectrum of contemporary rifles are the FN49 and the SKS, in terms of magazine release .... compared to those guns, the M14 system seems positively a blessing.

All the same, the lack of a drop free system is a bit of a curse when shooting competitively these days, as it slows you down considerably. Given our current '5 rounds' rule, I suppose stripper clips are an option, but that will eliminate some rail options for the use of optics as the stripper clip guide is removed and covered.
 
Well, look at it this way, every competitor is at the same "advantage" or disadvantage! Just practice your mag changes at home. It took me a little while to get used to the mag changes on my SIG CQB, going from the AR-15 that I had more experience with. Now, I'm pretty much just as fast with the CQB as the AR.
 
X-man said:
Well, look at it this way, every competitor is at the same "advantage" or disadvantage!
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Well, not quite ... most at our events use AR15's. I don't use an M14 but the lack of a drop free mag feature strikes me as a glaring deficit in an otherwise good firearm.

I suppose the AR type rifles with their enclosed receiver area required a drop free mag. The M14 with its more open structure could be more easily topped up by using strippers. I have found the 'open receiver' rifles to be far easier to deal with feeding issues as well.

The M1 Carbine appears to have the best of both worlds with a drop free mag and a feeding area open to the user. Except for its lack of a mount for optics, the M1 Carbine would seem to be a kick ass competition rifle for action shooting. I used one at a competition recently and found it to be accurate, fast to shoot and possessed of exceptional handling characteristics.
 
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I don't see any downside to the M14 style magazine. Anyone who carries a semi auto pistol for a living knows someone that has had a mag accidentally come unlatched. Too as mentioned before, retention of mags is a large benefit. Having to physically remove the mag makes it easy to slip it into a dump pouch to be reloaded later. The little bit of extra time required to do this is mitigated by actively seeking cover and reloading there.
 
Brobee said:
+1 for mag retention. I prefer non-drop free magazines.

Brobee
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+2 you can reload 5 rnds faster than a mag change by using the stripperclips and I dare say even faster than changing mags on an AR
 
On a pistol I like drop-free. On a rifle I am not so sold on it. I haven't spent much time trying to reload rifles quickly (especially compared to pistols) but with five rounds, I also think a single mag + strippers is going to be about as good as a whole bunch of heavy mags.

In any case the gun wasn't designed as a tac rifle toy, it's a battle rifle!
 
Savage said:
+2 you can reload 5 rnds faster than a mag change by using the stripperclips and I dare say even faster than changing mags on an AR
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your on:dancingbanana:


Jamie Barkwell
 
Originally Posted by Savage
+2 you can reload 5 rnds faster than a mag change by using the stripperclips and I dare say even faster than changing mags on an AR
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Jamie said:
your on:dancingbanana:
Jamie Barkwell
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I think someone just made my point for me .... :D

As good as you can get with M14 changes, you can be even faster with an AR15. Granted the M14 was designed for combat and not sports but that interval where reloading takes place ought to be as short as possible.

Also bear in mind that we will tend to evaluate a firearm in terms of its current potential use and not necessarily its historical context. I believe the stripper loading idea works (and has a couple of advantages) given the use of iron sights only, but fails if a scope/optic is to be mounted.

Taking historical context into account does seem to answer my question though, and that is in the historical context of its introduction as an MBR, the use of iron sights would not have inhibited stripper loading. I have to wonder if stripper reloading was ever intended for full auto shooting mind you, and the idea of struggling with an M14 mag change in the face of a human wave attack doesn't strike me as all that appealing!:runaway:

Oh well, there's always the bayo and the steel buttplate .... :eek:
 
My AR does not leave my shoulder on the reload(unless I am behind cover) the trick for me is round count...I try to never let it run dry


Jamie Barkwell
 
I don't know about reloading five rounds faster with a stripper clip than a mag change. Take the rifle off your shoulder, insert stripper clip, press down on rounds, remove stripper, pull back and release bolt, put rifle back on shoulder, reaquire target? With a Rooster tactical release I never even take my rifle off target to change magazines. Pull down mag, set down mag, pick up new mag, insert new mag, slap tactical release, pull trigger. Takes no time at all. I don't quite understand the complaints.

Anyway, to throw another gun into the mix, imagine the drop free magazine on the Thompson SMG when you didn't give it a hard enough wack during install. I've read that it was quite common among rookies to have the reload sequence sound something like this.

Click (magazine rammed home), bang (first round fires), clunk (magazine hits the deck). Now don't you look like an idiot in front of the heavily armed bootleggers.
 
Gentlemen
I'd suggest that there are two different small unit doctrines in play, the non free dropping mag of the M-14 and the drop free M-16 mag.
During WWI bolt actions were universal and doctrine said each shot was aimed. During WWII the M-1 replaced the boltguns for the US forces and suppressive fire slipped into small unit doctrine. The suppressive fire aspect became more popular, so basically the US military doctrine combined the M-1 with the BAR's 20 round mag.
If doctrine dictates that aimed fire is obsolete and suppressive fire is the way of the future then a lighter weight weapon with more ammo available and faster reloads, means faster training for the troops. Wallah we have the M-16 family of weapons.
People shot with 30s stay shot, people shot with 45s stay shot, unfortunately the same can not be said of the 5.56 and the 9mm. This is my experience, observation and opinion.
Jim
 
People shot with 30s stay shot, people shot with 45s stay shot, unfortunately the same can not be said of the 5.56 and the 9mm. This is my experience, observation and opinion.
Jim
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What exactly is your experience in that matter ?
Why is it that most modern police/military forces use 556 and 9mm instead of 30 and 45 ? They must all have it all wrong I guess...
 
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