Why were so many Lee Enfields sporterized?
- Thread starter satcom
- Start date
Rifleman1911
CGN Regular
- Location
- Leduc county AB
Cause there were tons of them around. sometimes they gave then new stocks and shortened the barrels for use with a scope.
Hundreds of thousands of these were available after WW2. Business opportunity was there; buy them for cheap, remove "unnecessary hardware" (handguards, nose cap, etc), cut the forend, and sell it as a hunting rifle for profit.
Some commercial companies did this, and many individuals as well.
Some commercial companies did this, and many individuals as well.
Buffalo Creek Law Dog
Regular
I remember in Sears in Calgary, back in the mid 1950s they were selling them in barrels for - Your choice $11. each.
- Location
- the other side of the river
They actually got more money for them once sporterized...how times change.
I got mine in a hardware store in Lynn Lake, Manitoba. $35.00. I wanted to get the Jungle carbine, "unsporterised" but was told the recoil was too much and they weren't as accurate. If only . . .
I have to say, the one I bought was not pleasant to shoot. It was reasonably accurate but kicked horribly. I have a .300 Mag that I would rather shoot than that one.
I have to say, the one I bought was not pleasant to shoot. It was reasonably accurate but kicked horribly. I have a .300 Mag that I would rather shoot than that one.
I live in cottage country in 'Northern Ontario', this is deer and moose country. Many of the people that lived around here spent thier waking days trying to make a living and raise a family by grubbing around on their homesteads in true pioneer style. Some still have that lifestyle.
Once trees were cleared crops could be planted, usualy turnips, corn, beans and squash. Meat was literaly running around the back yard and a good shooting rifle was considered as a neccessity to put meat on the table. Surplus rifles were cheap and readily available. A high percentage of able bodied men had volunteered and saw service in WWII, the Lee Enfield was a familiar arm. So it was a done thing to buy a full wood rifle and cut it back to lighten it and make it look more like a civvy sporing rifle.
Nothing wrong with a sporter if done properly, in fact BSA made factory sporters, some quite high end. Most cabins and cottages around here had a rifle or two obove the door or in a closet. In recent years, properties have changed hands and the incoming generations often don't want the guns around anymore, so they come up for sale in the local paper, yard sales, auctions and church bizzares (yup, bought one from the ladies auxilliary bake sale).
Some sporters I have shoot very well and point and balance nicely. Form follows function and they are what they are. If nicely done, I keep them that way. Others are abominations done by somebody with no skill and few tools. These are what I call Bubba's rifles. I usualy strip them for parts.
The hobby has come to a point where barrels, fore stocks and nosecaps are in demand and in short supply. Prices for these bits will only go up. A repop stock for a Long Lee Enfield will set you back $200 or more, if you can find somebody to make one.
Some gems still turn up.
This puppy was found by a friend in Newfoundland. Typical of what is called a 'Dorey gun'. Cut back so that it will stow under the gunwhales of a Dorey fishing boat. Buddy bought it on my behalf, paid big bucks for it, $150 I think it was. Why pay so much for a bubba? It is a Lee Metford carbine dated 1893, one of 100 made for troop trails, serial number 4. I changed the forestock for a sporter one and it shoots like a charm. A project in progress but in the mean time, a cool little bush gun.
So I never screw my nose up at the offer of a sporter, ya never know what it might be.
Once trees were cleared crops could be planted, usualy turnips, corn, beans and squash. Meat was literaly running around the back yard and a good shooting rifle was considered as a neccessity to put meat on the table. Surplus rifles were cheap and readily available. A high percentage of able bodied men had volunteered and saw service in WWII, the Lee Enfield was a familiar arm. So it was a done thing to buy a full wood rifle and cut it back to lighten it and make it look more like a civvy sporing rifle.
Nothing wrong with a sporter if done properly, in fact BSA made factory sporters, some quite high end. Most cabins and cottages around here had a rifle or two obove the door or in a closet. In recent years, properties have changed hands and the incoming generations often don't want the guns around anymore, so they come up for sale in the local paper, yard sales, auctions and church bizzares (yup, bought one from the ladies auxilliary bake sale).
Some sporters I have shoot very well and point and balance nicely. Form follows function and they are what they are. If nicely done, I keep them that way. Others are abominations done by somebody with no skill and few tools. These are what I call Bubba's rifles. I usualy strip them for parts.
The hobby has come to a point where barrels, fore stocks and nosecaps are in demand and in short supply. Prices for these bits will only go up. A repop stock for a Long Lee Enfield will set you back $200 or more, if you can find somebody to make one.
Some gems still turn up.
This puppy was found by a friend in Newfoundland. Typical of what is called a 'Dorey gun'. Cut back so that it will stow under the gunwhales of a Dorey fishing boat. Buddy bought it on my behalf, paid big bucks for it, $150 I think it was. Why pay so much for a bubba? It is a Lee Metford carbine dated 1893, one of 100 made for troop trails, serial number 4. I changed the forestock for a sporter one and it shoots like a charm. A project in progress but in the mean time, a cool little bush gun.
So I never screw my nose up at the offer of a sporter, ya never know what it might be.
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- Location
- WMU247 near Edmonton
nice LM Carbine
parts are going to be a problem. I've just started fabricating my own parts when I can't get what I'm looking for.
But its one hell of a process.
I'm always on the lookout for any old strange sporters, you never know what you'll find.
Oh and with over 13 Million enfields made there were a few left over when armies went to self loading rifles
parts are going to be a problem. I've just started fabricating my own parts when I can't get what I'm looking for.
But its one hell of a process.
I'm always on the lookout for any old strange sporters, you never know what you'll find.
Oh and with over 13 Million enfields made there were a few left over when armies went to self loading rifles
Woodchopper, yup,parts will be a challenge but I am well on my way with this project. Looking at pics of other surviving trails carbines, the forestock external profile turns out to be similar to that of the Martini Metford 303 carbine and the nosecap is also of the same pattern.
A transitional Sht LE stock has enough meat on it to whittle away to make up a mock up stock. Wood patching required for the defuct inletting and cutouts but it is doable. I intend to make up a stock this way, and then have one made on a duplicator. Will be more of an investment of time than money. Winter is coming, maybe I'll have something to show you next spring.
A transitional Sht LE stock has enough meat on it to whittle away to make up a mock up stock. Wood patching required for the defuct inletting and cutouts but it is doable. I intend to make up a stock this way, and then have one made on a duplicator. Will be more of an investment of time than money. Winter is coming, maybe I'll have something to show you next spring.
- Location
- WMU247 near Edmonton
Interesting, I'm making a stock myself out of 2 bubba stocks by cutting them splicing them together then working the new stock down to size.
Been filling in the cutouts that are no longer needed with bedding epoxy. I need to update that enfield project thread with photos again.
Affordable
At home in RSA there was major glut of LE's from military stores years ago andpeople thought it was odd if you didnt sporterize your LE!
As others have said they were very cheap and there was huge trade by anyone calling themselves a gunsmith, in sporterizing them. As in Canada these jobs varied from very good, well modifed sporters to nothing more than removing wood and scoping them to some very 'creative' abominations.
The .303 also has long history in most of the Commonwealth and still retains an iconic status fueled by 1) it is a good hunting cartridge and 2) the many old tales of its effectiveness.
Of most 'cheap' and common mil-surps it was one of the best for sporterizing and scoping. Ammo has always been widley available and manufactured in a host of different countries.
At home in RSA there was major glut of LE's from military stores years ago andpeople thought it was odd if you didnt sporterize your LE!
As others have said they were very cheap and there was huge trade by anyone calling themselves a gunsmith, in sporterizing them. As in Canada these jobs varied from very good, well modifed sporters to nothing more than removing wood and scoping them to some very 'creative' abominations.
The .303 also has long history in most of the Commonwealth and still retains an iconic status fueled by 1) it is a good hunting cartridge and 2) the many old tales of its effectiveness.
Of most 'cheap' and common mil-surps it was one of the best for sporterizing and scoping. Ammo has always been widley available and manufactured in a host of different countries.
As soon as the world decided to dump their excess inventories of arms onto the market to raise much needed funds, there was a rush to distribute the basic milsurp rifles to the financially disadvantaged hunter. All over the world, entrepreneurs on various levels jumped at the opportunities suddenly made available.
There were cottage industries built around these cheap and plentiful rifles. They were available in all conditions, from barely scrap to new in grease and priced accordingly. Large mail order houses sold them through the mails or you could pick them up just about anywhere from the local garage to heavy equipment dealers. Lyman and several other companies produced after market sight components as well as complete sights. Others made up trigger guards and triggers as well as bolt handles, stocks and thousands of other accessories.
It was a great opportunity for everyone and if Bubba happened to screw up a rifle, well, so what? He had fun doing it for very little cash outlay. If all of those rifles had been left in original condition, they would be very dear today and not nearly as collectible.
In the fifties, sixties and seventies, most people turned up their noses at milsurps in original condition. They were after all said and done designed to kill people under war time conditions, not for hunting game animals or target shooting. Many of these rifles were turned into magnificent sporters by amateurs as well as professionals. Sadly, most of them were butchered beyond repair. Many people just didn't like their martial appearance and didn't want to carry the extra weight as well.
What happened to the milsurp weapons was a logical step in our societies evolutonary process. It developed the shooting community into a universal group that spanned all sections of society, much to the chagrin of many that considered themselves to be the elite. That's more than likely the reason for the self appointed social elitists rallying to the anti gun groups today. Many of them just can't bear the idea of going shoulder to shoulder with commoners.
Be happy, that so many of these milsurps survived. Snap up the Indian, Pakistani and Turkish variants. They are drying up and will soon be unavailable at the reasonable prices you see now.
In many ways, I'm surprised that the fad of collecting milsurps has grown as much and lasted for so long. The same cannot be said for other fads. Look at antique cars, vehicles that were bringing 6 figure prices 20 years ago are bringing in half what they used to. Yes there are plenty of exceptions but it is the trend, especially as their aged owners pass on and they just don't have the same appeal to younger generations now. I'm sure that will swing around again. I don't see the interest in milsurps waning at all, other than a few old timers selling off their collections as they head for the afterlife or those that have fallen on hard times. Even then they haven't lost their enthusiasm or interest and are trying to save the milsurps from destruction by ignorant, not stupid, widows and children by converting them into cash instead. I've met several young people recently that are both proud and interested in their legacies as well as those that just want to unload them.
There were cottage industries built around these cheap and plentiful rifles. They were available in all conditions, from barely scrap to new in grease and priced accordingly. Large mail order houses sold them through the mails or you could pick them up just about anywhere from the local garage to heavy equipment dealers. Lyman and several other companies produced after market sight components as well as complete sights. Others made up trigger guards and triggers as well as bolt handles, stocks and thousands of other accessories.
It was a great opportunity for everyone and if Bubba happened to screw up a rifle, well, so what? He had fun doing it for very little cash outlay. If all of those rifles had been left in original condition, they would be very dear today and not nearly as collectible.
In the fifties, sixties and seventies, most people turned up their noses at milsurps in original condition. They were after all said and done designed to kill people under war time conditions, not for hunting game animals or target shooting. Many of these rifles were turned into magnificent sporters by amateurs as well as professionals. Sadly, most of them were butchered beyond repair. Many people just didn't like their martial appearance and didn't want to carry the extra weight as well.
What happened to the milsurp weapons was a logical step in our societies evolutonary process. It developed the shooting community into a universal group that spanned all sections of society, much to the chagrin of many that considered themselves to be the elite. That's more than likely the reason for the self appointed social elitists rallying to the anti gun groups today. Many of them just can't bear the idea of going shoulder to shoulder with commoners.
Be happy, that so many of these milsurps survived. Snap up the Indian, Pakistani and Turkish variants. They are drying up and will soon be unavailable at the reasonable prices you see now.
In many ways, I'm surprised that the fad of collecting milsurps has grown as much and lasted for so long. The same cannot be said for other fads. Look at antique cars, vehicles that were bringing 6 figure prices 20 years ago are bringing in half what they used to. Yes there are plenty of exceptions but it is the trend, especially as their aged owners pass on and they just don't have the same appeal to younger generations now. I'm sure that will swing around again. I don't see the interest in milsurps waning at all, other than a few old timers selling off their collections as they head for the afterlife or those that have fallen on hard times. Even then they haven't lost their enthusiasm or interest and are trying to save the milsurps from destruction by ignorant, not stupid, widows and children by converting them into cash instead. I've met several young people recently that are both proud and interested in their legacies as well as those that just want to unload them.
"...as it would have been..." No guarantee of that. Barrel could easily have been shot out, bad headspace, etc, etc.
Like bearhunter says, thousands were cut down and sold as inexpensive hunting rifles. Know a guy who still uses one.
Like bearhunter says, thousands were cut down and sold as inexpensive hunting rifles. Know a guy who still uses one.
