Wildcatted 308 or 30-06 to strait wall?

H Wally

H Wally

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Just curious, I saw a 308 case that was fired in a 30-06 chamber and it got me thinking... anyone know of a wildcat cartridge that either blows out or trims down 308 or 3006 brass to a strait wall 44 or 45 cal cartridge? Would be kindof a fun round I think:)

If it's a common wildcat cartridge, then I guess I'm just out of the loop:p
 
About as big as you can go is .375 so it will headspace on the neck, but come to think of it, there was the 400 whelen.....got me thinking if a 416-06 would work.:)
 
H Wally said:
Just curious, I saw a 308 case that was fired in a 30-06 chamber and it got me thinking... anyone know of a wildcat cartridge that either blows out or trims down 308 or 3006 brass to a strait wall 44 or 45 cal cartridge? Would be kindof a fun round I think:)

If it's a common wildcat cartridge, then I guess I'm just out of the loop:p
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That would be hard to do as there would be no shoulder or rim to head-space on.
 
Rimless cartridge needs a shoulder to head space on, 400 Whelan had head space issues because it didn't have enough of a shoulder.
If you want a 45 straight wall cartridge may I suggest 45-70 or 458 Win Mag, why reinvent the wheel, it's already been done.
 
9x19mm, 45ACP, and other straight wall rimless pistol rounds headspace on the case mouth, so it can be done.
 
The .44 AutoMag started out as a much shortened .308. Cut to 1.298", remove 3 thou off the rim diameter and ream the case mouth to .428", .590" deep. Same body diameter at the head as either the .308 or .30-06. Too short for an M305 action without major modifications.
I'd bet it'd work through an SKS action without too much work though. Only 226 thou difference in case length. Only 25 thou difference in rim diameter. The 7.62 being smaller.
Cu$tom barrel$, either way.
There is/was a .44 wildcat that is literally a .308 without the neck. Can't remember what it's called though. Most likely more than one too. You're not the first to think about it.
"...Rimless cartridge needs a shoulder to head space on..." Nope. Headspace on the case mouth like a pistol cartridge.
"...it's already been done...." Of course, it's been done. Everything has been done by some guy, somewhere, at some time. Not likely in an M305 though. The cost of a custom barrel will kill it anyway. Doesn't mean and shouldn't mean one should stop thinking.
 
Head spacing on case mouth works good in pistol sized cartridges but not so good in rifle sized ones, ever wonder why we don't have any rifles that use that system to head space. Unless the rifle uses one of the pistol sized cartridges.
308 or 30-06 to strait wall is going to cause problems, 400 Whalen had head space issues and it had a bit of a neck.
 
Headspacing on the chamber mouth would work just fine on rifle-sized cartridges.
It probably wouldn't work on a "blown straight" .308 because the neck would be much too thin to reliably stop the cartridge from sliding forward. However, trimming an '06 case to length would probably provide the necessary neck-wall thickness.
 
400 Whalen had head space issues and it had a bit of a neck.
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This is a bit of a side bar but twice you have stated this here and it needs a clarification.

As originally designed and chambered by Whelen and Howe it did not have headspace issues. But as later smiths picked up the concept they failed to reduce the body taper as the original design did - which was crucial to headspacing. So the shoulder became too small for reliable headspacing. It wasn't much of a difference but it made all the difference one could say. But the original 400 Whelens produced had "enough" shoulder. Chamber casts of at least one early original rifle have shown this. Today we might add "improved" to the name to indicate the body taper was reduced. In the 1920s not so much. Also I think they originally used 30-06 cylindrical brass when forming the 400Whelen too. So they didn't really blow out existing taper as much as form an entirely new cartridge case from scratch.

BTW, I believe before Keith came to favour his 338wildcat he loved hunting big game for years with his 35Whelen and also a 400 Whelen.
 
Well thanks for the clarification.
Going back to Wally's OP I still think that it is a bad idea.
 
sunray said:
The .44 AutoMag started out as a much shortened .308. Cut to 1.298", remove 3 thou off the rim diameter and ream the case mouth to .428", .590" deep. Same body diameter at the head as either the .308 or .30-06. Too short for an M305 action without major modifications.
I'd bet it'd work through an SKS action without too much work though. Only 226 thou difference in case length. Only 25 thou difference in rim diameter. The 7.62 being smaller.
Cu$tom barrel$, either way.
There is/was a .44 wildcat that is literally a .308 without the neck. Can't remember what it's called though. Most likely more than one too. You're not the first to think about it.
"...Rimless cartridge needs a shoulder to head space on..." Nope. Headspace on the case mouth like a pistol cartridge.
"...it's already been done...." Of course, it's been done. Everything has been done by some guy, somewhere, at some time. Not likely in an M305 though. The cost of a custom barrel will kill it anyway. Doesn't mean and shouldn't mean one should stop thinking.
Click to expand...


Well, if 44 automag worked, then shortening a 308 or 3006 case to behind the shoulder should. I haven't cut any of it up, but I'd imagine the brass is definitely thick enough to index off of there.



Win Shooter said:
A more exotic example is Bill Alexanders .50 Beowulf and it uses the AR platform so if money is not object, the skys the limit.
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Yep - had this kindof in mind when I had the idea.

Whelen B said:
This is a bit of a side bar but twice you have stated this here and it needs a clarification.

As originally designed and chambered by Whelen and Howe it did not have headspace issues. But as later smiths picked up the concept they failed to reduce the body taper as the original design did - which was crucial to headspacing. So the shoulder became too small for reliable headspacing. It wasn't much of a difference but it made all the difference one could say. But the original 400 Whelens produced had "enough" shoulder. Chamber casts of at least one early original rifle have shown this. Today we might add "improved" to the name to indicate the body taper was reduced. In the 1920s not so much. Also I think they originally used 30-06 cylindrical brass when forming the 400Whelen too. So they didn't really blow out existing taper as much as form an entirely new cartridge case from scratch.

BTW, I believe before Keith came to favour his 338wildcat he loved hunting big game for years with his 35Whelen and also a 400 Whelen.
Click to expand...

I guess this is the case in point for showing what to do and not to do with it. Probably an ultimately pointless excercise, but a fun one to problem solve for.

I wonder if an SKS action could handle a 308 large bore cartridge... Might be worth looking into.
 
303 British to ?

How about taking a 303B to the largest possible size? I think a 40 should be possible before it becomes a cylinder but who knows? The rim would solve any headspacing problems and I know there was a 375 Epps at one time.
 
Whelen B said:
This is a bit of a side bar but twice you have stated this here and it needs a clarification.

As originally designed and chambered by Whelen and Howe it did not have headspace issues. But as later smiths picked up the concept they failed to reduce the body taper as the original design did - which was crucial to headspacing. So the shoulder became too small for reliable headspacing. It wasn't much of a difference but it made all the difference one could say. But the original 400 Whelens produced had "enough" shoulder. Chamber casts of at least one early original rifle have shown this. Today we might add "improved" to the name to indicate the body taper was reduced. In the 1920s not so much. Also I think they originally used 30-06 cylindrical brass when forming the 400Whelen too. So they didn't really blow out existing taper as much as form an entirely new cartridge case from scratch.

BTW, I believe before Keith came to favour his 338wildcat he loved hunting big game for years with his 35Whelen and also a 400 Whelen.
Click to expand...

More info can be found here on correct .400 Whelen dimensions:
http://www.z-hat.com/smashing_the_headspace_myth.htm
 
hiredgun said:
How about taking a 303B to the largest possible size? I think a 40 should be possible before it becomes a cylinder but who knows? The rim would solve any headspacing problems and I know there was a 375 Epps at one time.
Click to expand...

A straight-walled case based on the .303 would be very similar to the .444 Marlin.
 
Apparently it is possible to have a straight-walled rimless case by using a well-fitting CRF rifle. The extractor can hold the case tight enough against the bolt face to hold the headspace. I have not done this, but have read about it on several big bore forums.

Hugh
 
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