Will still shot REALLY harm this shotgun?

J

joeyclimbing

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Last year I purchased a Winchester model 12. It is stamped "for super speed & super X. Full"
IT has not been modified and has a nice factory chequered stock. SER no 12734xx and I believe it is a "heavy duck"

Ive been invited on a Manitoba goose/duck hunt in september and plan to use my newish Beretta S Pigeon most of the time, but my question is will a few boxes of steel shot through the model 12 be harmful to the gun, or should i leave it home in the safe?

Thank you.
 
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"Will still shot REALLY harm this shotgun?" Think you mean "steel" not "still".

I've read on other threads here that stores will check for you if you bring the firearm to them, 90% of them for free. I'm not sure I'd trust a generic opinion from a forum in this matter.
 
If it's a full choke don't go firing steel through it. If you have a gunsmith open it up to modified you would be a-ok. I shot cases and cases of steel out of my 1932 Model 12 I had choked by Briley and it did not do the least harm to the gun at all. Steel shot is completely engulfed in the shot cup(wad) and the shot cups are much heavier thicker plastic. The shot at no time makes contact with the barrel. The issue is when it passes through a tight choke such as a full constriction for lead shot. The steel pellets are much harder and have poorer flow and compression characteristics. When a load of steel passes through the choke it doesn't deform or compress and acts like a high speed ram or swage going through the tight constriction and can cause ring bulging at the rear of the choke constriction or in some cases has been known to actually open a choke up to less constriction. I have personally witnessed three guns damaged to the point of having to either replace a barrel or cut it off behind the bulge. One was an 870 Rem Choke barrel and it was literally destroyed. The choke split in half and spread apart. The muzzle was bulged so bad the choke could not be removed. The other was a pair of Maverick 88's. One was ring bulged and the other was flared like a blunderbuss though not that extreme but enough to write off the barrel. None of which were mine but the owners didn't heed the warnings and it cost them a gun. If you want to waterfowl hunt with that classic and I don't blame you because they are THE classic waterfowl gun, consider sending it to Briley for a choke job. Best investment I ever made with my Model 12. It kept it in the marsh where it belongs!! I sold it to a fellow Cgn'r a few years ago but last I spoke with him it was still going strong. I had it choked in '92!
 
Thanks for the advice; I'd hate to ruin it. Is a choke job something a local island gunsmith could do? Perhaps 2 or 3 boxes of the bismuth shot wont hurt it? I still have a month before the Manitoba trip.
 
joeyclimbing said:
Thanks for the advice; I'd hate to ruin it. Is a choke job something a local island gunsmith could do? Perhaps 2 or 3 boxes of the bismuth shot wont hurt it? I still have a month before the Manitoba trip.
Click to expand...

If you don't want to modify the gun, just shoot Bismuth & to hell with the cost of the ammo!

Enjoy your hunt!

Cheers
Jay
 
joeyclimbing said:
Thanks for the advice; I'd hate to ruin it. Is a choke job something a local island gunsmith could do? Perhaps 2 or 3 boxes of the bismuth shot wont hurt it? I still have a month before the Manitoba trip.
Click to expand...

If a gunsmith cant open a choke then he shouldnt be a gunsmith.

As for Bismuth, you can shoot as much of it as you want. However it wont take many boxes to pay the equivalent of a new gun that can shoot steel. IIRC it runs almost $5 a shell
 
I shot a Heavy Duck fixed FULL for an entire season. I shot 3" Kent #2. No issues what so ever. The Heavy Duck barrel thickness is large and you won't hurt the gun. If you want to shoot BB or BBB have it opened to IMP MOD. Then shoot it some more. You will find two camps on steel shot usage in vintage shotguns. Some will say "absolutely not, never" and some will say "sometimes depending on the gun and ammo". I am of the second noted camp. I also shoot Federal #4 @1375 FPS out of my standard model 12 FULL choke with no issues. Would I shoot letter size steel out of it? No, that's why the camp I am in says depends on gun and ammo choice.

Darryl
 
I have my fathers old Stevens pump was thinking about having it opened up too. Is there a minimum constriction dimension to shoot steel in a 12 guage? Looking up choke dimensions, every manufacturer and every choke system seems to have different dimensions.
 
With steel you drop down in constriction..ie: a lead mod constriction is a steel full.
Here is what most choke manufacturers will give you as a guideline...

lead Skeet = Imp Cy Steel
lead IC = Mod Steel
lead Mod = Full Steel
lead IM = XF Steel
 
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madtrapper143 said:
I shot a Heavy Duck fixed FULL for an entire season. I shot 3" Kent #2. No issues what so ever. The Heavy Duck barrel thickness is large and you won't hurt the gun. If you want to shoot BB or BBB have it opened to IMP MOD. Then shoot it some more. You will find two camps on steel shot usage in vintage shotguns. Some will say "absolutely not, never" and some will say "sometimes depending on the gun and ammo". I am of the second noted camp. I also shoot Federal #4 @1375 FPS out of my standard model 12 FULL choke with no issues. Would I shoot letter size steel out of it? No, that's why the camp I am in says depends on gun and ammo choice.

Darryl
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And I know from contacting Winchester it is not recommended to shoot steel through those old fixed fulls. I'll go with their say so instead of I have done it for years and never a problem.....yet.
 
blasted_saber said:
If a gunsmith cant open a choke then he shouldnt be a gunsmith.

As for Bismuth, you can shoot as much of it as you want. However it wont take many boxes to pay the equivalent of a new gun that can shoot steel. IIRC it runs almost $5 a shell
Click to expand...

Really glad I've got close to 700 Bismuth Shot Co. and Kent Tungsten Matrix shot shells with an average cost of under $1.70 per shell.
 
I must have posted this a dozen times or more...

SHOTGUN BARREL ALTERATIONS FOR STEEL SHOT

Forcing Cone Alteration:

Factory shotgun barrels usually have a fairly short and abrupt forcing cone. The forcing cone is the tapered area just ahead of the chamber where the shell is contained. Altering the forcing cone, so it is one and one half or two inches in length, reduces recoil and improves the pattern density. Trap shooters and skeet shooters have been doing this for many years. It is a good benefit to the steel shot user as well.

Choke Alteration:
Choke designation from the tightest to the most open are:
Extra Full, Full, Improved Modified, Modified, Skeet II, Improved Cylinder, Skeet I, and Cylinder Bore.

Steel shot does not require the constriction that lead shot needs, to produce good patterns. In fact too much constriction, causes poor, erratic patterns, and in some cases, permanently damages the barrel. I have seen barrels bulged at the choke, I have seen barrels where the choke split right open, from using steel shot.

For steel shot, with thin barrels, chokes should be altered to at least Skeet II. Often, over & under, and side-by-side shotguns, are best altered to Skeet I and Skeet II chokes. Heavier barrels can be left at Modified choke but may see an improvement in the pattern if opened slightly.
 
Really in 2016 if you have to ask about steel shot in vintage guns . Here's a thought take it with u on the hunt fire some bbb"s through it and let is know the results
 
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