Win 30 30,LVR data is all over the place???

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So I'm just getting ready to load 30 30
Leverlution powder and 160 g FTX.

Data from Hornady manual,Hornady factory rnds and Hodgdon is all over the place.
What gives?
I know know its lawyered up,but which lawyer?

Hornady factory:
32.3 g= 2400 FPS
24 inch barrel

Hodgdon
32 g =2221 FPS
35.3 = 2389 FPS
24 inch barrel
(Max load dont get to 2400?)

Hornady 10th manual
32.4 g = 2100 FPS
20 inch barrel.
So losing 300 FPS with 4 inches less barrel?

According to the Hornady data,the only way to get close to factory speed , with my 20 inch barrel gun,is to load at max 37 g,which still only gets me 2300 FPS.

Just curious, as I'm going to do some testing anyway.
 
Noticed that as well. I'm thinking that like all manufacturers, they over-rate the speed on their factory ammo. 2400fps on the box vs 2300fps for the data using the same projectile, case and powder. I might make a few rounds up using large rifle Magnum primers and see if that makes a difference. I already loaded up a batch of 160gr FTX over 37gr LVR and I'll be hitting the range with the chrony on the weekend. Going to test a few factory loads vs my max loads. I'll be using a Marlin 336 BL with a 20" bbl as well. I'll post up the results once I get back.
-Jason
 
thebuckhunter said:
Noticed that as well. I'm thinking that like all manufacturers, they over-rate the speed on their factory ammo. 2400fps on the box vs 2300fps for the data using the same projectile, case and powder. I might make a few rounds up using large rifle Magnum primers and see if that makes a difference. I already loaded up a batch of 160gr FTX over 37gr LVR and I'll be hitting the range with the chrony on the weekend. Going to test a few factory loads vs my max loads. I'll be using a Marlin 336 BL with a 20" bbl as well. I'll post up the results once I get back.
-Jason
Click to expand...

I was gonna load some with 37 g but they were really compressed.
I dropped back to 35.5 which is .5 over max ,on Hodgson, but 1.5 under max ,in Hornady manual.
 
Load data varies depending on the firearm and how the chamber pressure is measured.

If a specific firearm is listed a strain gauge is glued to the barrel and a cartridge of a known pressure is test fired to calibrate.

If a universal receiver and test barrel is used a copper crusher or transducer is used to measure chamber pressure. And this would be a direct pressure reading with a barrel with the minimum chamber and bore dimentions.

So as you can see load data varies by the firearm used or the universal receiver and test barrel. This is why they tell you to make a workup load starting at the suggested starting load and work up. The Loads I shoot in my Winchester 94 Trapper model are 2 grains above max load and the fired primers still protrude. Meaning the chamber pressure is not great enough to push the case to the rear and contact the bolt face.

The max pressure for the 30-30 is 42,000 psi and the SAAMI sets this max pressure for the oldest and weakest action the cartridge will be fired in. Example the 30-06 max pressure is 5,000 psi lower than the .270 winchester and yet you can buy new Remington 700 rifles in both calibers.

So a chronograph would tell you more about your load than the reloading manuals that vary in data.

Note, P.O. Ackley removed the locking bolt from a 30-30 Winchester and test fired the rifle. And nothing happened, the case gripped the chamber walls and only the primer backed out. Meaning at 42,000 psi the chamber pressure was not great enough to make the case stretch and contact the bolt face. Bottom line as long as the primers are protruding the only load on the bolt face is from the primer.

EPcuYSG.jpg
 
I'm going to run the factory ammo over the chrony tomorrow.
I also have loads done in 34.5 and 35.5.
I loaded a few at 37 but they were compressing so much,that they were leaving a ring around the top of the bullet, just above the ogive.
I was using a small amount of crimp,on the cannlelure
 
thebuckhunter said:
Noticed that as well. I'm thinking that like all manufacturers, they over-rate the speed on their factory ammo. 2400fps on the box vs 2300fps for the data using the same projectile, case and powder. I might make a few rounds up using large rifle Magnum primers and see if that makes a difference. I already loaded up a batch of 160gr FTX over 37gr LVR and I'll be hitting the range with the chrony on the weekend. Going to test a few factory loads vs my max loads. I'll be using a Marlin 336 BL with a 20" bbl as well. I'll post up the results once I get back.
-Jason
Click to expand...

Are you sure its the same powder? I would bet that what you buy off the shelf isn't exactly the same as what the factory is using.

Also as Bigedp51 points out, It is very common to see different max velocities and powder charges from different sources, because they aren't using the exact same rifle. Every rifle is different after all.
 
Suther said:
Are you sure its the same powder? I would bet that what you buy off the shelf isn't exactly the same as what the factory is using.

Also as Bigedp51 points out, It is very common to see different max velocities and powder charges from different sources, because they aren't using the exact same rifle. Every rifle is different after all.
Click to expand...

It SHOULD be the same. Leverevolution rounds came out then the powder. It's an assumption on my part. I pulled a factory round and it's pretty close to 37gr. (36.8 on my scale. The powder was very fine, as is the LVR powder in the bottle. I'm using Hornady cases, powder and projectiles. The only true unknown is the primer. That's why I loaded 3 with LR magnum primers to see if that is the difference. Will post my results sometime this weekend.
-Jason
 
Just start low and work up. If you have a chrono then shoot for book velocity for your max. I load 170s over LVR in the .30-30 and get right around Hodgdon's velocity at max out of a 20" Marlin.
 
Hey Jason
I pulled a factory rnd and got 32.3 g.
37 g is a really compressed load.
I'll recheck that later.
I couldn't chrony my rounds today as I couldnt get the magneto to work with my lever gun.
But 34.8 g worked well for me.
 
Well I just got back from the range and..... Success!!!
I put 3 factory Leverevolutions over the chrony and got 2424. 2417 and 2433 fps out of my Marlin 336 BL with a 20" bbl. I then put 5 of my reloads, Hornady case, Winchester LR primers, Hornady 160gr FTX and 37gr (max load, compressed) of Hogdon Leverevolution powder over the chrony. I got 2423, 2436, 2432, 2429 and 2454 fps. Was really surprised that I basically got a carbon copy of the factory load but also the precision I got with my new RCBS Chargemaster Lite. I didn't bother to run my 3 reloads with the magnum primers as there was no point in trying them. The temp was a balmy 6 degrees C with a bit of a breeze. My accuracy was a 5 round group measuring roughly .75 inches at 50 yards. No complaints here. My 100 yard group opened up to about 2" shooting off of a front sandbag and no rear rest with a 1.75-5x32 Vortex Diamondback. The target was a bit fuzzy at 50 and crystal at 100. I'm having Vortex change the parallax to 50 yards for me as this is mainly going to be a bear banger and maybe a moose/deer backup.

-Jason
 
thebuckhunter said:
Well I just got back from the range and..... Success!!!
I put 3 factory Leverevolutions over the chrony and got 2424. 2417 and 2433 fps out of my Marlin 336 BL with a 20" bbl. I then put 5 of my reloads, Hornady case, Winchester LR primers, Hornady 160gr FTX and 37gr (max load, compressed) of Hogdon Leverevolution powder over the chrony. I got 2423, 2436, 2432, 2429 and 2454 fps. Was really surprised that I basically got a carbon copy of the factory load but also the precision I got with my new RCBS Chargemaster Lite. I didn't bother to run my 3 reloads with the magnum primers as there was no point in trying them. The temp was a balmy 6 degrees C with a bit of a breeze. My accuracy was a 5 round group measuring roughly .75 inches at 50 yards. No complaints here. My 100 yard group opened up to about 2" shooting off of a front sandbag and no rear rest with a 1.75-5x32 Vortex Diamondback. The target was a bit fuzzy at 50 and crystal at 100. I'm having Vortex change the parallax to 50 yards for me as this is mainly going to be a bear banger and maybe a moose/deer backup.

-Jason
Click to expand...
Hey that's pretty good speed. It's about 130 FPS faster than Hornady 10th listed max load of LVR ,160 FTX.out of the same lenght barrel.they list 37 g with a speed of 2300.
Is it possible to gain 130 fps more,when using same barrel lenght and twist? It's a big difference.


I made a mistake when I pulled the first factory bullet, as the powder was clumped in the bottom of the case.

I pulled three more ,and this time I picked out all the compressed lumps. It was like small lumps of glue.
I'm still only reading 36.5 g , from 3 pulled cartridges.
That may be the scales,but they weight check good.
Its
 
I was pretty impressed as well. The Hornady manual lists their test gun as a win 94. Lord knows how old the gun is or how many rounds went through it? My Marlin is brand new with less than 100 rounds. I won't complain on the extra speed. Now I know i can back off a few 10ths of a grain and keep the speed around 2400. It's also the first loads I did with my new RCBS Chargemaster light. I compared the dispensing to my Lee safety scale and my Lyman 1500. All were just about spot on, maybe .2gr off from one another.
-Jason
 
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Did you crimp the 37 g rounds?

I tried crimping but I kept getting a ring cut into the bullet, just above the ogive.
 
Yes. No issues. I used a Lee crimp die to do mine. It sounds like you need to set the die further down. I took a pic of the bullets. Mine is on the left with a visible crimp ring at the canelure. The one on the right is a factory round.
-Jason

 
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Did not run any Factory FTX over my Oehler 33, but some factory Winchester 170 grain
Power points made 2033 average, and the 170 Old style Silvertips made 2065 avg.
My pet load for the 160 FTX is 37 grains of LVRV, but this bullet does not shoot well in
my 20" carbine. It does shoot very well in my 336A with the 24" barrel. 2550 and pennies.
Dave.
 
thebuckhunter said:
Yes. No issues. I used a Lee crimp die to do mine. It sounds like you need to set the die further down. I took a pic of the bullets. Mine is on the left with a visible crimp ring at the canelure. The one on the right is a factory round.
-Jason

Click to expand...
I'm using Hornady dies and no matter how I adjust them,I get the ring around the bullet.
From compressed loads only though.

I've read it's a common issue, I'm working on it though..lol
 
I've only used rcbs and lee dies. I did get a bulge on the first round I seated. I had set the seating die too deep. Once I backed it off and adjusted the seater depth deeper, the bulge was gone.
-Jason
 
I tryed all diff adjustments,but it didn't solve anything.
After a bit of research, I tryed the hot method,and though it could work,it just dont feel right.
Next up was the sandpaper method.
600 grit was reccomend,but all I had on hand was 300 and 400.
And that did the trick, smooth as silk now.. lol
 
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