win 94 accuracy

matou2041

matou2041

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Hi just finish to experiment a load for my win 94 and I get a constant 1.25 inch 10 shoots groups at 50 yards with a 10 X varmint tasco scope

I use for that lee 303 british mold 185 grs gas checked and resize at 0.311" (everything under 0.311" make a lot of leading and group bad)
9 gr of trail boos
cci 250 primer (unable to find 200) winchester primer do a really bad job
and lee liquid alox ( regular lube I had try give me bad group)


Can I really expect mor accuracy from that kind of rifle ?????
 
See if you can get some "Harris" bullets from Lee mold and try that.I had a guy in GRGC shooting groups like that at 100 ydr with irons.He used old Win 94 with long barrel.
I think he used Unique, WW alloy and neck sized cases but it was a year ago,I might not remember well.

I personally shot Savage 99 in 303 sav that shot 2 inch groups all day with irons so yea,lever actions can be accurate with lead IF you find right combination of bullet design/bullet size/powder/alloy.

Edit-I have a current production of Lee 312-155 Harris and it does have a flt nose a bit less than 1/8 in diameter so you can load it in tube mag if you crimp it nicely.
 
nice I had looking for the harris but in the catalogue it looking very sharp but with 1/8" i am not affraid to use it on the tubular magazine by the way with trail boos the recoil is not more than a 22 mag
 
Tried .309 hard cast from the Bullet Barn this weekend over Trailboss, it didnt work out. Will cast some of WW this week and leave unsized for the next round, haven't measured the throat yet, but assume this may help.
 
Rimfire69 said:
Tried .309 hard cast from the Bullet Barn this weekend over Trailboss, it didnt work out. Will cast some of WW this week and leave unsized for the next round, haven't measured the throat yet, but assume this may help.
Click to expand...

give those hard cast a treatment of powder coating and try then, I bet you will get substantially better results, at least that's my experience with the combination.
 
I tried oven hardener bullet with a brihnell around 22 and the result was very poor, the collet was dirty sign of lack of sealling, for now my lead is around 14 bh no dirt on my case collet and no lead in my barrel if 10 shots at 1inch and 1/4 is to big at 50 yards what I suppose to get from my 20 inch barrel ?
 
What kind of target are you using at 100? It might not be a rifle or bullet to blame for poor results-it might be just the way you see target behind your sights.

Try different targets and different methods of aiming to find that works best with your eyes.

For me plain 8x11 sheet of paper works but with some rifles I need 11x17 due to the way sights are designed.

I love Konvalov sights on M91 Mosins but I can hardly get any decent results from Mausers because of "pyramid" front sight.

BTW-did you try any .311 or .312 sized casts?Also try some bullets made with softer alloy.Some types of rifling work better with softer alloy.
 
if you read my post I had try sizing at .309 .311 and by the way .312 (no sizing) for the hardness I write before I tried hard 22 bh but around 14 bh make munch more result , for target I use some cross made by star target with my scope set at 10X my parralax well adjust and my test range at 50 yards my vision is perfect so perfect i see the hole of my bullet crisp and clear. Before some one ask I use the bench rest of the shooting range (really stable) a front rest and a rear bag. With this set up with my sniper rifle I make 3/8 moa at 100 yards all the time and with my savage 22 lr bull barrelle and the same target i shot 10 shot in less than a 1/2 inch at 50 yards.

My real question is with a cast bullet a standard win 94 with 10 x scope a velocity of 1 300 fps can I expect to put 10 shots in less than 1 inch and a 1/4 (2.5 moa)
I had try all powder load from 6 grs to 10 grs of trail boss
I had tried all primer i can buy around my place
I had tried soft medium and hard alloy
I had tried 4 different lube
I had tried .309 .310 .311 .312
I had tried gaz check and no gas check

after a full summer of testing the best I got is 1.25 inc 10 shots group at 50 yards I go with that or I forgot this gun and I start to work with a other one ?
 
I'd not give up without trying some other powder(I've had good luck with both Unique and H110 in 30 30's) and if you have a good smooth bore try 18 or 20:1 lead and tin. Having said all that, your results sound pretty good to me.
Grouch
 
matou2041 said:
if you read my post I had try sizing at .309 .311 and by the way .312 (no sizing) for the hardness I write before I tried hard 22 bh but around 14 bh make munch more result , for target I use some cross made by star target with my scope set at 10X my parralax well adjust and my test range at 50 yards my vision is perfect so perfect i see the hole of my bullet crisp and clear. Before some one ask I use the bench rest of the shooting range (really stable) a front rest and a rear bag. With this set up with my sniper rifle I make 3/8 moa at 100 yards all the time and with my savage 22 lr bull barrelle and the same target i shot 10 shot in less than a 1/2 inch at 50 yards.

My real question is with a cast bullet a standard win 94 with 10 x scope a velocity of 1 300 fps can I expect to put 10 shots in less than 1 inch and a 1/4 (2.5 moa)
I had try all powder load from 6 grs to 10 grs of trail boss
I had tried all primer i can buy around my place
I had tried soft medium and hard alloy
I had tried 4 different lube
I had tried .309 .310 .311 .312
I had tried gaz check and no gas check

after a full summer of testing the best I got is 1.25 inc 10 shots group at 50 yards I go with that or I forgot this gun and I start to work with a other one ?
Click to expand...

I don't think the venerable '94(in 30-30?) has topped too many F-class shooting competitions. 2.5 at 100 is not that bad to begin with, and chasing better is the fun of this hobby. You probably can beat that benchmark. I certainly wouldn't make any serious competitions between a '94 and a fine shootin' rimfire at 50yds to compare.

You may shrink your group depending on bullet/powder combinations, different sights, or LOTS of trigger time. I installed a Williams sight last year that shrunk groups on a 30-30 '94 for the owner.

I've not much luck with optics on them at all, so no insight there.
 
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Thanks, I will try both lubed and PC versions of my WW cast. I'm not so sold on this hard idea, I've had better luck over the years with softer alloys.
I agree that the target style makes a difference when sighting, I would be happy with 2.5' at 100yds with open sights and cast bullets.
 
Yesterday I tried my williams peep sight at the same 50 yards with the same ammo I used with the scope, front sight was to big and cover more than the target but I get some 5 shoot groups around 1 inch ...

By the way I just ordered a lyman 17A globe sight, my first project was to develop a load and after I wanted to going back with iron sight, I will see what happen with the right sight and target and for sure I will trie some adjustment on the ammo after
 
You mentioned using a 185gr bullet and that MAY be a problem. I had a Win 94 with a fairly short throat causing the bullets to seat well below the neck. This is not usually a good thing with cast as the base can "rivet" up in diameter and then it has to squeeze down upon entering the barrel. This isn't always a problem but It can be. In my experience I've always obtained better accuracy with bullets that DO NOT seat below the case neck.
 
is sit around 0.015 " over the below case neck opening my oal is 2.575" it's feed from the tubular magazine with no issues and when I charge in chamber it dont touch the riffling. On my win 94 ranger (from 1986 worst win periode production) the chamber and the barrell is really over size, may that's why with jackered bullet this rifle group like 8 to 9 inch at 50 yards. a bullet at 0.312 "(from the mold w/o sizing) load in a case go easy on the chamber
 
Something sounds altogether weird.

I have a 94 from that period and shoot 150-170 grain hard cast with gas check and have no issues. I size them to .309

150 grain with light loads at 50 yards

1tMtIXX.jpg
 
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nothing weird you put 3 shoots in 1.25 inch, I put 10 shhots in 1.25 inch, my barrel is only bigger than your's

I never says i have a issues I asking if 10 shoots inside 1.25 inch at 50 yards is close the best I can expect

At that period winchester was close to make backup they drop the quality on the production and by the way drop the quality control that's why some gun from is period was good other one was so so you get a good one me a so so, mine I can put lot of oil on it and store in a dry place it rust ...
 
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