Winchester 1892 - Seized Pin

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Quik10

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Hi all,

Recently I received an original Winchester 1892 in .44-40 from my uncle (who, in turn, received it from his grandfather), which was manufactured in 1895 (according to the serial number approximations).

It seems like the rifle was never cleaned, as it had grass and dirt in the barrel and trigger group. The metal is also in poor/mediocre condition; the bluing is pretty much gone and there is surface rust all over the firearm. The flathead screws are also relatively stripped, and one screwhead attaching left locking bolt is broken. I decided to try to disassemble it, and give it some deep cleaning and light polishing, to try to breathe some life back into it.

I downloaded this disassembly guide from Gun's Digest, which seems very complete.
http://www.gundigest.com/online-gunsmithing-tools/winchester-model-1892-assemblydisassembly-instructions-download

I got to the step which involves drifting the pin with a punch towards the left side of the receiver, in order to separate the lever from the breechblock (bolt). However, no matter how much time I spend trying to push this pin out, it simply refuses to budge. This step is shown at approximately 9:55 of this youtube video (who makes it look so easy! :bangHead:):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHmC4nBJUyc

I've tried:
-Hoppe's #9
-PB Blaster overnight
-Acetone/ATF (1:1 volume) mix
-Senseless, hopeless hammering
-Taking a C-clamp to the punch; this didn't work, as I couldn't get it to apply pressure on the punch's axis, it would bend the punch.

At this point, I managed to remove all the remaining internals, so that only the breechblock and lever remain in the action.

My next step will be taking a soldering iron to the pin, then spraying some water to rapidly cool it. I'd do it now, but I seem to have misplaced my soldering iron? :confused:
If this doesn't work, I may consider drilling it out.

Any insight, comments, or suggestions would be very appreciated.
Thank you all
 
First confirm it is a pin... And if it is you want to heat around the pin to expand the receiver metal slightly, and cool the pin. Having the gun solidly supported directly around the pin without damage is key as well. A brass punch and a good heavy hammer should make easy work. Some pins may drive in and out a certain direction, which I'm sure others will be able to confirm.
It's ok to use a propane torch as long as you don't focus the heat too directly, or for too long. You will only want it just too hot to touch(not even close to changeling colour!)
Hope that helps
 
Thanks for the quick replies.

Yeah, it's a pin, and I removed the bolt pin stop screw as well. It only comes out towards the left side of the receiver, when the bolt is in the fully closed position..

This is the step I'm stuck at (~9:55):

I'm using a 1/16" chrome vanadium steel pin punch from CarQuest (POWERBUILT 941235, ~$8), because the smallest brass punch my Weaver kit had was 1/8", and that didn't fit.
When I used a heavy hammer, the punch would get bent. That pin is seized pretty bad!

I'm a bit worried I'd deform the receiver if I tried to heat the pin with a torch. I'll give the soldering iron a try first.

Would drilling it out be a conceivable option, worse comes to worst?
 
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If you do decide to drill the pin, just make darned sure that the pin is lined up with the hole, and that only the pin is drilled.
 
It should come out. Try heating and cooling repeatedly while soaking with penetrating oil. Moovit or mouse milk works great. No deformation possible if you use a torch CAREFULLY. I've used the technique on seized aircraft assemblies. Just heat from a distance, remove heat and give a quick touch test. You only want it just too hot to touch. A heat gun also works if you are nervous.
 
I would start by getting a proper punch for the job. Brass is of no use in this case. Nor is a punch that bends. If your punch is bending two things its too long and too soft. For a seized pin as you are describing a punch with a "starting the movement, length tip" should be used. The tip only needs to be a small fraction longer than needed to reach the pin (1/8" is lots). It will not be so apt to bend when the needed sharp whack is administered.
Another tip I will pass on is to try common drugstore Iodine as a loosener overnight. We have used it here on the farm to loosen rusted bearings, bolts, screws, pins when nothing else would work. I don't even try anything else anymore, a drop or two of Iodine is our first "go to".
 
Assuming the screw is removed from the left side of the reciever - as a previous post stressed - assure the bolt is fully in the locked position ( lever fully closed) THEN by using a flashlight shining into the left side of the hole - assure the pin is CENTERED in the hole. If it ISN'T, unlock the lever, releasing the locking lugs and "jiggle" the bolt back and forth to center the pin in the exit hole. The "nose" of the pin is "rounded/tapered" to facilitate both its inserting and removal, while its base is squared off. If for any reason that pin was improperly put in, the square shoulder would have to be VERY CAREFULLY & ACCURATELY aligned to the exit hole to enable its removal. In all the 92's I've worked on - I've NEVER had a "frozen in" pin. Applying heat is NOT AN OPTION as it will only serve to EXPAND the surrounding metal parts and aggrevate the situation! As an absolute last resort I would suggest drilling a small hole in the pin from the left side and trying an Ezee Out tool to rotate the pin sufficently to "break the freeze" condition. And if that doesn't work, use the appropriare size drill to drill the entire pin out, with DUE CARE not to drill past the right side of the bolt and into the reciever. Good luck - don't get impatient - first "be nice" you can always "get ugly" if everything else fails!!!
 
Wow thanks for the responses, everyone.

superted, I made sure the bolt was in the fully locked position by tightening tie-wraps around the lever and the frame. This way, I ensured the bolt would not move.

gunsmith1951, I initially C-clamped (protecting the finish with some shop-towels) the firearm to my surface because I don't have a block of lead, but it seems to be holding up fine!

cbfmi, I had tried that previously with acetone/ATF and PB Blaster. It didn't work, which surprised me as well, because this trick had always worked for me (then again, this is the first time I work on something so old!)

wbaad, I ended up using a small torch and spraying water on it, combining rapid expansion/contraction, my acetone/ATF mix and PB Blaster while trying to punch it out. Eventually my punch snapped, but it still made contact with the pin, so I decided to keep punching. As Fingers284 suggested, I needed a shorter, harder pin to get it moving, and it finally moved ever so slightly, because I was able to hammer the pin with greater force. I had ordered another punch from CarQuest to shorten it when the current punch broke.

I'll try to get it out completely tomorrow, and I'll keep you all in the loop.

Thanks for all the tips everyone, you all helped immensely. This community is awesome!
 
Hey all,

I tried again this morning. I shortened the punch using a Dremel, but the punch was still too soft, and bent when I tried to use it.
So I took an old, appropriately sized Allen key and cut off the "L" head, to use that as a punch instead of the softer, thinner punch.

Gave the pin another shot of torch/water, then hammered the living hell out of it. It finally came out, and I was able to remove the lever from the bolt.

Man was it seized. Before polishing it, I tried to put it back in the hole in the lever (removed from the frame), and had trouble doing so.

After I finish polishing, cleaning and rebuilding the firearm, I might post some pictures or a video of the disassembly/reassembly, in the order suggested by Gun's Digest.
I haven't made my decision whether or not to have the metal reblued. Still unsure, and I think I will take some time to seriously think about it. It still needs some serious, deep cleaning and TLC on the exterior, I'll decide after I'm completely finished. I may post back here for some help in that decision ;)

Thanks for the invaluable help, everyone. I hope to be as helpful in the future.
 
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