winchester 94 (38-55) updated with pictures(lots)

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hacer2

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ok heres is the deal today i have come across a lovely old winchester 1894 in (38-55) which with the serial is dated 1900 it has about a 5% finish left on it no rust and the bore is excellent and very bright. it has a short tub mag on it. the wood is in a what i would call NRA good mostly safe kisses. what would one of these go for these days???
thanks!

AS promised here are the pics. anything more i can get from the gurus!










 
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I'm going to need more close up photos. Here are the questions I would have:

1. has the wood been sanded? (is it still proud of the metal? .... need a close up of the tang, as well as a overhead shot of the wood were it meets the front of the receiver, and a side shot of the wood where it meets the receiver, and a close up of the wood where it meets the top and bottom of the buttplate)
2. has the receiver been cleaned? (need a photo were there is no reflected light coming off the receiver)
3. has the barrel been shortened? (it looks shorter than normal ..... get a measurement from the breech of the chamber to the muzzle)
4. has the tubular magazine been shortened? (how is it attached to the underside of the barrel?)

If any of the above, it will really drop the value a lot. On the other hand, if it is entirely original, it looks like a special order short rifle with a half mag, which would be worth more than normal.
 
Win 38-55 said:
I'm going to need more close up photos. Here are the questions I would have:

1. has the wood been sanded? (is it still proud of the metal? .... need a close up of the tang, as well as a overhead shot of the wood were it meets the front of the receiver, and a side shot of the wood where it meets the receiver, and a close up of the wood where it meets the top and bottom of the buttplate)
2. has the receiver been cleaned? (need a photo were there is no reflected light coming off the receiver)
3. has the barrel been shortened? (it looks shorter than normal ..... get a measurement from the breech of the chamber to the muzzle)
4. has the tubular magazine been shortened? (how is it attached to the underside of the barrel?)

If any of the above, it will really drop the value a lot. On the other hand, if it is entirely original, it looks like a special order short rifle with a half mag, which would be worth more than normal.
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ok sounds good but from the discription above would it be a safe investment for what i will say a steal of a price?
because i will probably need to buy to get most of the details you need above
according to my accolyte which was with me all of the above seemed original and unmodified only thing was that the finish on the reveiver and over all metal parts was very worn
only thing i am not able to get at the moment is the mesurments
 
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Well, worst case scenario is that the gun has been modified or sanded or something, in which case its value would be primarily as a shooter. As a shooter, it might be worth $500, but I could be high. If it is all original, it would be worth about three times that much, depending upon the amount of blueing left. Ask him if the distance between the front of the barrel and the centre of the front sight dovetail. It should be exactly 1" if it has not been cut down. Also, ask if there is an empty dovetail under the barrel near the front, or a tiny slot just under the muzzle. If so, the mag has been cut down.
 
Kirk,
The photo posted is of another rifle, so the one the OP is looking at may not have a shorter barrel, he never really specified that in his post.
Really need photos of the real gun in question to give you a good idea. Good advise from Kirk.
Good luck,
Matt
 
The .38/55 in the 1894 was originally designed as a black powder item but is perfectly safe with the mild .38/55 smokeless loads available now. From your photo looks like a cut off 26 inch octagon with a shortened mag. Looks like the butt has been heavily sanded as you can see an area of exposed tang that shouldn't be visible in an unsanded stock. If the bore is as good as you say it would make a good woods rifle/shooter. If you can get it for less than $350 I would grab it. From appearances it doesn't look like a factory short rifle as the rear sight notch is standard distance from the receiver (many short rifles were one inch closer to the receiver for increased sight radius) and the forend looks like the standard 9 3/8 inches long, most (not all) short rifles had the shorter forend. My 2 cents.
 
Mike, if you read the OP's original post, that is not the gun he is buying, just one on the Internet that looks similar.
Matt
 
Matt74 said:
Mike, if you read the OP's original post, that is not the gun he is buying, just one on the Internet that looks similar.
Matt
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Thanks for pointing that out, Matt; I completely missed that. Given that we have no photo, all bets are off as to its value. We would need some close up photos and more details. If you could get it for $500 sight unseen, then you probably would not lose out and if it was all original, it would be a bonus. However, if it is all original, then a lot depends upon its configuration (octagon barrel vs. round, pistol grip vs. straight, fancy wood vs. plain, etc.).
 
Win 38-55 said:
Thanks for pointing that out, Matt; I completely missed that. Given that we have no photo, all bets are off as to its value. We would need some close up photos and more details. If you could get it for $500 sight unseen, then you probably would not lose out and if it was all original, it would be a bonus. However, if it is all original, then a lot depends upon its configuration (octagon barrel vs. round, pistol grip vs. straight, fancy wood vs. plain, etc.).
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what I wanted to hear thanks alot guys you were alot of help stand by for pictures if the trade is successful.
 
Matt74 said:
Mike, if you read the OP's original post, that is not the gun he is buying, just one on the Internet that looks similar.
Matt
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My bad, Matt. I figured everyone on here knows what a 94 sporting rifle looks like, why post a photo? At any rate even a grey gun in .38/55 is well worth $500 nowadays. Hope the OP gets it and puts up some pics.
 
The rifle looks honest to me from what I can see ..... the wood looks to be around the right shade of darkness for not having been sanded in the last 100 years. The barrel is a replacement, judging from the mail order proof mark, nevertheless, it looks like an honest Winchester barrel and appears to have been replaced a very long time ago. I don't see a dovetail near the front, but maybe the mag was cut down when the barrel was replaced, but maybe it wasn't. No way to know without checking the Cody records. From what I can see, it is worth more than $500. If it matches the Cody records re. mag length and barrel type, and if the wood is original, then I'd say it is worth closer to $1,000. Perhaps someone else who knows half mags better can chip on on whether the attachment point is correct or not.
 
Rebarrelled, like 38-55 says. The magazine is wrong to me, done afterwards. Half mag should be a button mag, too short for a 2/3 and has standard full mag end on it. To me value wouldn't be much over $600, no collectability, but will make an excellent hunting rifle or shooter. Hard to find a .38-55 with a good bore. My 2 cents.
 
I wouldn't say the mag tube is necessarily wrong, it will depend again on the letter if the OP chooses to pursue it to that degree. I had a 1902 made rifle that had the same kind of mag tube on it, looked like it had just been cut down. I was downtrodden. When the letter came, turns out it was originally a 32WS full length octagon (ordered with another gun) and had been returned a year later, rebarrelled to round 20in 30WCF and cut to its 2/3rd mag, which looked like this one. I was still a little suspicious because of the mag tube plug (not being the expected button one), but a collector friend explained it this way. He said when you look through it with the eye of a collector 100 years later when the only things we have to reference are books, we think of it as an aberration and that something is wrong. The real question would be (and put yourself in the factory 100 some years ago) is why would Winchester replace a perfectly good part when they could use what was already on the gun? Unless the owner asked for it of course, there would be little need. And the 'collector' didn't exist as we know it today, it was a gun that was to be used. Which makes sense in my case why a perfectly good Octagon rifle in 32WS went back got a new round 20 in barrel, 2/3 mag tube and kept its rifle forearm, stock and mag plug, cause there was no need to change it.

Anyhow, all I am saying is that we cant write it off, but even if it letters out, you're right Mike, its had a replacement barrel and so unless the mag tube was done at the factory at some other time, its gonna always remain an unanswered question.

On the by-and-by, I just love the academic discourse around Winchesters, I just need to get a pipe and a tweed Norfolk jacket and i'll be good to go.
 
Yes, the barrel is indeed a later replacement, as noted by the mail order proof and the right side of barrel address that was often used on mail order barrels.
On the magtube, it sure appears that it has been cut back. Magtubes on 1894s of any length shorter than standard, were rounded, not flat. They were rounded as it provided a more aesthetically pleasing appearance to guns with this option. Also, as for the term "button mag", that is a collector's term coined to describe the variation of "half mag" that is round and sticks out just past the end of the forearm. One will find variations in the actual length of a half magazine, depending on how many cartridges the magazine was ordered to hold, obviously if it is a TD rifle, the half mag will be longer. I have a real nice one on the way that letters as a "4 cartridge magazine". It is not button, but sticks out a few inches past the end of the forearm. Don't have any photos to post here yet, but can when it shows up.
No, can't write it off, but sure doesn't look right to me. Especially if there is a screw in it going into the barrel, hard to tell though from pics. Factory or factory reworked would not have that. Yup, too bad the old guns couldn't talk, then there would be no more mysteries like this to solve!
Cheers,
Matt
 
i have a 1909 Winny SRC in 38-55 which was rebarrelled with a Winchester and mail order marked barrel. When and where (factory?) it was done and why is anyones guess. The numbers tell nothing as those books burned in the fire. So the gun has been labelled a shooter and not original.
 
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