Winchester 94 barrel installation

ssapach

ssapach

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I have an oldie Model 94 that had the barrel on tight, but it was not properly indexed. The extractor cutout on the barrel didn't line up with the cutout on the receiver, and the sights were noticeable canted. The misalignment on the extractor cutout was about .030" to the left, as in the barrel was overtightened.

I've removed the barrel already, and it wasn't overly tight as it came free quite easily in one try. But now, when I go to reinstall it, what's the best solution for having it properly indexed? I've read mentions of shimming the barrel to the receiver. Is shimming common/acceptable or is it a hack repair? Or is this a problem that requires setting back the shoulder, cutting off threads and rechambering?

If a shim is ok, of course proper headspacing may become the next issue. But I've also noticed that there are oversize locking lugs available for the 1894.
 
I am not a gunsmith so will definitely defer to wiser folk, but when messing with barrel installation, I have always used headspace gauges. I am guessing that you have no idea whether the canted barrel was headspace correctly or not?? Simply shimming or turning shoulders seems pointless unless one knows where things are regarding headspace. I have several mausers in various stages of "working on" and barrel tightness does not necessarily match up with correct headspace. Of course, with the mauser I am not dealing with an extractor cut, either, but, non the less, either the receiver front or the barrel shoulder may have been messed with, and a headspace check is needed to know where you are at, I think.
 
I won't go into the headspace but one trick gunsmiths do is to lightly and evenly peen the barrel shank. You need to do it evenly around the entire diameter, and go slow but you can sometimes save a eighth of a turn.
 
Is the barrel original to the rifle, or is it a replacement?
When you turn the barrel in, how much torque is there when the barrel is properly indexed?
A breeching washer could be fitted.
The barrel shoulder could be upset by peening or rolling. This will likely show. You get one chance to torque the barrel in to index.
I'd be inclined to check headspace with the barrel turned to index before doing any work. Easy enough to make gauges for a rimmed cartridge.
 
Barrel looks original to the rifle, at the very least, it's certainly not new. And the barrel is properly indexed when it is spun in hand tight.

Peening the barrel might be an option. It will be visible, but it's a fairly well worn rifle. Someone already made what looks like pipe wrench marks in the barrel, so a few peening marks won't necessarily make it less valuable.

It's not exactly a collectible or family heirloom, so no real loss if it can't be brought back to life. Just want to see if I can make it a shooter again.
 
Well, I made some headspace gauges.

With the barrel properly indexed, the bolt will close and lock on .073

.074 is pushing it and .075 is a definite no go.

My understanding is that max headspace is .070 but maybe I'm misinformed....
 
Going beyond my experience here, but it looks to me that Win 94 locks up at rear of the bolt. Any chance that the wear / error is at the rear end, either in the bolt itself or the locking lugs? I am interested,because I have recently acquired a 1958 version and it is all new territory for me.
 
I've run into this exact situation on several model 94s. Never on one of the Japanese made rifles though.

OK, here's what I tell people. Go ahead and use it as is. It won't Kaboom. It will however do one of two things or both. One, there is a very good chance the primer will back out after firing. Not a safety issue. Two, the shoulder will move forward by whatever the discrepancy is. Not a safety issue.

I believe you hand load??? For you, this isn't a big problem unless you're using the same set of dies for several rifles. When resizing your cases, don't full length resize and just set the shoulder back .002 from its blown out dimensions.

Now for the biggie. Get some Devcon Steel or Titanium Putty and after mixing it properly, smear it on the threads, turn the barrel into the receiver and let it set. Likely it won't even be noticeable, other than the sights/extractor will be properly indexed. If you insist on it being absolutely correct then set back the barrel by slightly less than one thread, have it rechambered and all of the other little things that will need to be done and likely cost more than the rifle is worth.

If you're looking for a shooter the Devcon solution will do the job.
 
bearhunter said:
I've run into this exact situation on several model 94s. Never on one of the Japanese made rifles though.

OK, here's what I tell people. Go ahead and use it as is. It won't Kaboom. It will however do one of two things or both. One, there is a very good chance the primer will back out after firing. Not a safety issue. Two, the shoulder will move forward by whatever the discrepancy is. Not a safety issue.

I believe you hand load??? For you, this isn't a big problem unless you're using the same set of dies for several rifles. When resizing your cases, don't full length resize and just set the shoulder back .002 from its blown out dimensions.

Now for the biggie. Get some Devcon Steel or Titanium Putty and after mixing it properly, smear it on the threads, turn the barrel into the receiver and let it set. Likely it won't even be noticeable, other than the sights/extractor will be properly indexed. If you insist on it being absolutely correct then set back the barrel by slightly less than one thread, have it rechambered and all of the other little things that will need to be done and likely cost more than the rifle is worth.

If you're looking for a shooter the Devcon solution will do the job.
Click to expand...


I appreciate all the comments so far.

And no, I do not reload rifle ammo. Only thing I reload for is the 10 gauge. So it's all factory, fresh out of the box ammo for my rifles so far.

This Devcon method sounds interesting. Will that pretty much ensure that the barrel isn't coming out ever again? Or could it be undone in the future?

For what it's worth, it's an early 1900's manufactured rifle. For all I know it will shoot like crap anyways, but so far I only have a bit of time wasted on it and not much else.
 
ssapach said:
I appreciate all the comments so far.

And no, I do not reload rifle ammo. Only thing I reload for is the 10 gauge. So it's all factory, fresh out of the box ammo for my rifles so far.

This Devcon method sounds interesting. Will that pretty much ensure that the barrel isn't coming out ever again? Or could it be undone in the future?

For what it's worth, it's an early 1900's manufactured rifle. For all I know it will shoot like crap anyways, but so far I only have a bit of time wasted on it and not much else.
Click to expand...


With heat it can be removed. I sincerely doubt you can get the receiver/tenon hot enough to allow things to come loose, even with rapid fire shooting.

As far as being accurate, that will mostly depend on the condition of the bore as well as the bore diameter. I used to have a 1907 manufactured Model 94 in 30-30 Win with a .312 bore diameter. It never really shot well until I started using a .312 expander ball from a 303 British and .312 diameter 150 grain round nose bullets.

If you're just looking to shoot this rifle occasionally it will be fine. If it's accurate enough to hunt those local Deer on the Island it will also be fine. There are a lot of old 94s out there with excessive headspace and they are still doing yeoman's service.

IMHO people get way to anal about headspace. It's something that needs to be understood and most people don't understand it.

Firearms are fantastic mechanical devices intended to contain specific amounts of expanding gasses created by a very fast burning propellant behind a projectile that is being swaged through a hole with tight tolerances so that it exits the hole at significant speed and with hopefully accuracy. It isn't rocket science but it can get very tedious when trying to get everything perfect.
 
For anyone interested in how this turned out, I finally got the rifle put back together.

Shimmed the barrel with some .003" shim stock, after a few tries of different thicknesses, this one got it tightened up and indexed just fine. Lots of screwing around cutting them out, but I ended up making a punch for the final shim. Shim isn't visible once it's all assembled either.

I also installed a .010" oversize locking lug, which cleared up the headspace issue. Won't close on the no-go anymore.

Got a new firing pin and a few new screws all at the same time. Haven't test fired it yet, but the barrel and sights look good and straight now, when shouldering it to aim.

It's an old clunker, maybe not worth the price of the parts and shipping to some. Hopefully it shoots with some reasonable accuracy now. If it does, I might just get some new wood to replace the crummy old stuff that has been sanded down (probably a few times).
 
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