Winchester Model 1885 Hi-Wall .38-55 Schutzen

Sly Old Fox · Jan 30, 2009

Winchester Model 1885 Hi-Wall .38-55 Schutzen

April 15th, 2010 N.B. I am getting ready to place this rifle on the BP/Antque EE forum in the very near future. The rifle really should be seen and handled to do it justice.

It's a #4 barrelled Hi-Wall, .38-55 which I bought in the mid 50's from Jack Sullivan of Bothwell, Ont. Originally, it was a straight but-stock but I had the long gone Charlie Parkinson of London, Ont. fit both Schutzen stocks (also obtained from Sullivan), the forend sporting a folding palm rest. Such modifications were routinely done in those bad old bubba days.

But before Parkinson bent the bottom tang to install the Schutzen stocks, I competed one summer, I think in 1957, with a small number of shooters around Thamesville, just east of Chatham, Ont. We had a small club, the Canadian Single Shot Rifle Club, about 20 * members, 1/2 of them from Detroit. At that time, I did not have a tang sight or scope. I water-clamped on at the wrist a Stevens antique tang site. I had not changed the stocks at that time nor added the Lyman (#57 ?) receiver sight, using epoxy resin. While today, this would be considered :evil:

, there was no other way for me to shoot it as a proper tang was out of my reach.

The club rules were very few:
-plain base cast bullet, any calibre, no gas check. Some shooters used black powder, others sifted bulk smokeless. Velocity was kept low and the matches were shot at 100 & 200 yds.

If my memory is correct, I was shooting about 14 grains of 4759 with a 275 grain lead bullet, lots of grease grooves. For this stye of shooting, velocity had to be kept in the 1,000 -1,200 FPS, no matter the rainbow trajectory, accuracy was the goal. We all on our benches set up a Lyman Powder measure or the equivalant, and used only a single case for the entire shoot, recapping, repriming, dropping the load, adding a pleget of kapok, tapped down with a lead pencil to ensure that the powder stayed down tight to the primer, seat a bullet which had been hand lubed at home, seated the bullet with the offset tool made from an old hand brace, with a cartridge cased screwed to it end. Thus the bullet was seated exactly to the same depth in the throat each time. The offset was to avoid the scope ocular, if you were flush enough to have one, close the chamber, set the trigger, rest the rifle, take aim and bang. :shotgun:

The lads from Michigan had some beautiful old rifles, Ballards, Stevens, Hi-Walls etc., some even with the legendary Pope barrells.

Anyway, off the bench, using a mismatched Stevens tang sight, hosed clamped on the original straight stock wrist, I could hold my own against the fancy stuff, target scopes etc.

As I have described above,

we all used bullet starters, which set the bullet into the lands, used only one catridge case, repriming and using a powder measure with a pleget of kapok pushed down on top of the load.
The kapok prevented the powder moving when the case was tilted and then chambered.

I now have target bases on the rifle, with a 12 power Unertyl scope of the 1950's mounted in the recoil mounts.

* The only two members of this Club that I remember by name were Jack Sullivan of Bothwell and Jimmy Secord of Thamesville. We shot on land south of the Thames River owned by the Secords.

This is a the rifle which started out as straight shotgun syle but stock with a rather plain fore stock. I obtained the Schutzen stock and Charlie Parkinson in London, Ont. bent the loading lever and fit the stock. The barrell I believe is a #4, that is not the heaviest that Winchester put on the 1885s

This shows the Unertyl 12X scope in the target mounts. On top of the barrell, just below the right end of the scope recoil spring, can be seen what appears to be an open sight; it is not an open sight but a level. At 200 yds. with the rainbow trajectory, a canted rifle would throw the slug well off the aim point, thus the need for level. This was not so important with the scope because a cant could be seen but was necessary if using the iron sights.

src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/sparseoldsalt/WIN Hi Wall 38 55 Schutzen/Hi-Wall2.jpg" border="0" alt="Hi-Wall #2"></a>

This better shows the level on the barrell. Also the adjustable single set trigger. The palm rest of course rested in the left hand with the elbow set onto the hip bone. The hook but plate with horns,went onto the upper arm and with the heavy barrell, the rifle was muzzle heavy. The rear sight is a Lyman (57?) filed flat and expoxy resined to the breech.

src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/sparseoldsalt/WIN Hi Wall 38 55 Schutzen/Hi-Wall3.jpg" border="0" alt="Hi-Wall #3"></a>

The hook but shows well here. If the breach block were dropped in the picture, it would be apparent how the cast bullet would be set just into the chamber, always orienting the sprue marks exactly the same. Consistency, at the bench at least, being very important.

src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/sparseoldsalt/WIN Hi Wall 38 55 Schutzen/Hi-Wall4.jpg" border="0" alt="Hi-Wall #4"></a>

And here we have the business end. The front sight is not vintage but a Lyman. The original sight was just a rather simple post or a barleycorn.

src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/sparseoldsalt/WIN Hi Wall 38 55 Schutzen/Hi-Wall5.jpg" border="0" alt="Hi-Wall #5"></a>

src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/sparseoldsalt/WIN Hi Wall 38 55 Schutzen/Hi-WallAcces2.jpg" border="0" alt="Tools #2"></a>

src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/sparseoldsalt/WIN Hi Wall 38 55 Schutzen/Hi-WallAcces3.jpg" border="0" alt="Tools #3"></a>

The accessrory case, if it were of the age of the rifle, would be better made and even more functional. I build it to carry the tools and fodder. Two bullet blocks one at left and other at the right show the two weights of bullets. I think those on the left are about 255 gr. whereas those on the tight are wll over 300 grains. The block swing out so that on closing the box, the bullets are held in place.It can't be seen but in the case is a small box, with a hole on the top. A fired case may be placed on top of the box, the depriming rod placed in the case and a tap of the mallet would drop the spent primer into a small slide out box, keeping it out of the way. The tong tool showing on left of cover was used to reprime only.

src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/sparseoldsalt/WIN Hi Wall 38 55 Schutzen/Hi-WallAcces1.jpg" border="0" alt="Tools #1"></a>

In the case will be seen the bent short bullet started, made from an old brace with a .38-55 case bolted to its end. The starter is bent because the but comb is directly behind the center line of the chamber and barrell.

The Schutzen style butt and forend with the palm rest are for those who wanted to "stand up like a man" to shoot. The hook was necessary for the arm pit and the left elbow (butt is not for lefties

) while the left elbow rested on the left hip. I understand that the Swiss had matches with the target on a post at the edge of a small lake and the bullet had to richochet of the water to the target. NO :bsFlag:

trevj · Jan 30, 2009

You should track down Campbell's books on the Winchester Single Shot! Good reading.

For a bubba job, that there's a pretty nice one! No lie! Better than all those "varmint" style '50's guns.

Winchester put three sizes of barrels larger than the #4 on Highwalls, The #5 and #6 were catalog items, the #7 was documented but not commonly available.
They would also increase the length of the barrel up to being quite the crowbar, in 2 inch increments, for a couple bucks a step.

Sweet rig! Looking forward to the rest of the story!

Cheers
Trev

cdnrokon · Jan 30, 2009

Wow drool drool

The Cold Lake Kid · Jan 31, 2009

OK Sly. When the weather moderates, we'll have to try that out with my .45-70 Hiwall clone.
Ya, ya, I know, you're older and tougher than I am.
I admit it.
But my hands hurt too much to load singles in this kind of weather.
Still trying to work up a load for the heavier bullets I now have, but the 350 gr pills will produce a 5 shot group about an inch by an inch and a half at 100 yd (EOHC)
Using 15.5 gr. Trail Boss and a dacron filler right now.
Pleasant to shoot.

Rossguy · Feb 1, 2009

Nice rifle indeed! Saint Jim of Secord (peace be upon him) bought the farm a few years back- For more interesting reading regarding similar rifles, and with much praise heaped upon Parkinson, Crandall of Woodstock and others, look for any of the four Varmint Rifle books written in the 1950's by C.S. Landis- great books, and he spent a lot of time up in Southern Ontario back when it was still really Canadian with Ontario shooters. I still have loading equipment and projectiles made from .22rf cases by Crandall back in the '50's-

Dantforth · Feb 1, 2009

Don, that is one beautiful rifle. It would require a lot more room to fire than I have at camp. Just like dangling a worm in front of a perch...."it will be going onto the EE later this year." I shoot SR4759 for all of my duplex and cast bullet loads. We don't have many benchrest or long range BP guys locally here. When the weather clears or warms a bit we'll talk in person. Dave in Westport

pageophile · Feb 1, 2009

Not much for BP stuff but WOW, that is a impressive piece of kit !

It's the kind of firearm one could spend hours going over and over noticing little things.

Thank you for sharing Sir

Winchester Model 1885 Hi-Wall .38-55 Schutzen

Sly Old Fox

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trevj

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cdnrokon

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The Cold Lake Kid

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Rossguy

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Dantforth

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pageophile

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