Winchester Model 21 Shotgun Arrived Today Needs Work

albayo

albayo

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Born on PEI, Live in NB
Does anyone know anything about Winchester Model 21, 12 Gage shotgun, what is it worth? The gun belongs to a buddy of mine and he wants to sell it. Are they any good, and what should I look for when I see it?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Albayo

Update on Winchester 21

Well the Winchester 21 arrived today and it is from the first batch made because it's serial number is below 600. It has a considerable amount of wear on the receiver, and the butt stock is broke off also the trigger guard is missing. It is a fixer up job and I traded some items for it now I own it. Don't know what I will do with it yet but I will have to research it. If someone can give an idea where parts can be obtained for it I would appreciate it.
Albayo


April 15th, 2006.

Gentlemen thank you for the help and the sources of information.
I have been thinking about the project and I have come to the conclusion that I haven't got the patience to start on something like this. I think I will put it up for trade or sale. I would like to trade it for something in the Commercial or Military handguns and long guns. I also collect swords and bayonets, I am in the following firearm classes:
12-3, 12-5, and 12-6.
Let me know what you have and we can talk.
Thanks
 
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The model 21's were the finest double barrel Winchester ever produced. They were made from 1960 - 1987 and were offered in the standard grade to the Grand American model which was a very limited run and usually in a 2 barrel set. The standard model has no engraving and was the basic field model for the 21. The early model guns were made from 1960 - 1969 and no Winchester name on the barrels, just the water tables along with the model 21. They were offered in several barrel lengths as well as chokes. They are an excellent quality gun with hand fitted parts. Winchester would have canned the whole line, they were terribly expensive to make. A certain Mr. Olin insisted upon their continued manufacture. Today, they are something of a cult gun, commanding prices in excess of their intrinsic value. Just about any 21 is worth thousands of dollars. They are still made new today, but by CSMC instead of Winchester. Your buddy would be best advised to have a non interested pro assess the value of the gun. Do a Google search on "Winchester Model 21" and see what I mean.

Sharptail
 
Sharptail has provided some good information on the Model 21 but even though he is this board's undisputed expert on double guns no one can offer an opinion on value with just the model number and the gauge. Although calling the Model 21 the "finest double Winchester ever produced" might be considered by some to be damning with faint praise.;)

The Model 21 went through two periods of production. 1931-1959 when it was a regular production gun and then from 1960 to 1987 when it was a special order gun from the custom shop.

Among some shooters the Model 21 is an icon. Three years ago I recall seeing a standard grade 32" Model 21 choked tight and tighter in excellent plus condition on sale for $5,000 at a GTA gun store. I also recall seeing a Grand American Model 21 on the rack at the Churchill shop in West Wycombe in the late 90's. Among the graceful and superb English guns the Winchester looked like a fat girl at a supermodel's convention.

Lot's more information is needed and a hands-on examination by someone who knows double guns is a very good recommendation.
 
Claybuster, sometimes I think you can read me like a book. I have difficulty, however, with being called
this board's undisputed expert on double guns
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. I assure you that I am a student of the gun, not a master. There are many on this board (yourself included) who have the knowledge which I come here to learn. It is the interaction and the sharing of information which keeps me here. If I am guilty of being too eager to put in my $0.25 worth, it is because I hope to generate conversation, and thereby learn something. GunNutz is unique, and has influenced me in many ways. There are many experts here.

Sharptail
 
Sharptail:

True enough, it's always best to remain a student. There's so much to learn about shotguns we're all students in one way or another.
 
albayo said:
Update on Winchester 21

Well the Winchester 21 arrived today and it is from the first batch made because it's serial number is below 600. It has a considerable amount of wear on the receiver, and the butt stock is broke off also the trigger guard is missing. It is a fixer up job and I traded some items for it now I own it. Don't know what I will do with it yet but I will have to research it. If someone can give an idea where parts can be obtained for it I would appreciate it.
Albayo
Click to expand...
Here are some links that you may find helpful. I don't know of anyone in Canada with a supply of Model 21 parts. Maybe Sharptail has a line on some.

This is the link to the company that bought the rights and all remaining spares for the Model 21.

http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/index/model21/model21.html

Here's a link to some more info on the 21.

http://www.winchestercollector.org/guns/model21.shtml

Best of luck in your project. From the sounds of it to get this gun restored is going to be a daunting and potentially expensive challenge. Welcome to the world of double guns.
 
Re-reading the thread today, I see I completely failed to mention the first generation model 21's. Another good reason not to call me an "expert".

Albayo, if I were in your position, I would first want to know how much the gun is worth in its present condition. Serial numbers up to 615 were 1931 production, and I am sure that a first year of production model will have some collector interest. I would contact a dealer or two in the U.S. and ask them what it is worth as it sits. Then find out what restored early model 21's sell for, take the difference between the two and you have your restoration budget.

Should you choose to restore it, seek an expert for advice. The wrong wood, the wrong bluing, the wrong anything - even the smallest detail - will reduce the value and salability of the gun substantially. Don't start to spruce things up before you are sure of what you are doing.

I have no line on model 21 parts, but I would call Irv at Western Gun Parts in Edmonton. He stocks parts for earlier Winchesters and if anyone in Canada would know where to get 21 parts, he will. Failing that, Claybuster has given you the link to CSMC. They have every part you will ever need - all you have to do is get them here.

Sharptail
 
Given the potential value of this shotgun, any restoration should really be done by a recognized professional experienced in this sort of work. Not going to be cheap, but the results would be worth it.
 
Albayo :

Where you at boy ? There are good 'smiths and stockmakers in most Provinces that can give you and idea about how much a restocking, refurbishing job might cost, replacement of trigger guard, etc. Galazan stocks most Mod, 21 12 ga. parts. The other gents are quite correct, sight-unseen, it's hard to tell whether you're on to a good project gun or a pile of doodoo.
If the metalwok is all in good shape, it may well be worth refurbishing. If dented, dinged, ring-bulged, pitted and otherwise everywhichway otherwise "buggered", you may find it to be a costly rehab. May not make sense on the amount of coin needed to purchase a good 21 - 12 gauge in decent shape.
 
It's definatly worth it to go get it fix up. After reading this post I whent and did some searching around and most of the ones I found were in the 15-20 thousand dollar range.
 
15-20 K is " poor advice" ... if it's a field grade Mod. 21., with broken stock and missing trigger guard, even IF refurbished to like-new condition.

A Mod. 21 - 12ga. field grade in 80 percent + ORIGINAL condition ( i.e., very good shape) is likely worth in the $ 3500 - $ 4000 range, and can often be had for considerably less.
 
beretta boy said:
15-20 K is " poor advice" ... if it's a field grade Mod. 21., with broken stock and missing trigger guard, even IF refurbished to like-new condition.

A Mod. 21 - 12ga. field grade in 80 percent + ORIGINAL condition ( i.e., very good shape) is likely worth in the $ 3500 - $ 4000 range, and can often be had for considerably less.
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I agree. It's REALLY bad advice.

Going into a refurb of an old double gun is not for the faint hearted or those with tight finances.

If the trigger guard is gone, the stock broken, the blueing worn off the biggest question that comes to mind is what problems are INSIDE the gun. A lot of old doubles can quickly become financial sinkholes. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. :redface:

Get the gun professionally examined and have some estimates made. Remember that whatever estimate you get DOES NOT include anything the gunsmith finds after he starts the work. Once you get started and new problems arise (and they likely will) you'll find an increasing temptation to keep pouring money into the gun.

It's your money and your gun. Do what you like but you are now swimming in the deep end of the pool with this gun and once you get started it can be very hard to get back to dry land.
 
Winchester 21, Fix it Or Trade it

Gentlemen thank you for the help and the sources of information.
I have been thinking about the project and I have come to the conclusion that I haven't got the patience to start on something like this. I think I will put it up for trade or sale. I would like to trade it for something in the Commercial or Military handguns and long guns. I also collect swords and bayonets, I am in the following firearm classes:
12-3, 12-5, and 12-6.
Let me know what you have and we can talk.
Thanks
Al
 
At the Calgary gun show there was a nicely refinished, early model Winchester 21 on a table with a tag of $3750 hanging off it. When I was looking at it there was considerable interest by two or three other people (had to use an elbow). I don't know if it sold, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

Sharptail
 
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