Winchester vs Federal reloads

jacky

jacky

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I have been reloading ( with my new to me MEC 9000 hydrolic :D ) and have been loading some 1oz shells using a AA hull and grey wad, 16.5 grains of promo and a chedditte primer. Nice shell ( the crimp is not totally flat since the wad is also for 7/8 loads) no kick and breaks targets well. Chrony'ed at about 1100-1050 fps.

Then I used the same load with the same grey wad but in a federal hull with the high brass and it was 10 times better. It was like shooting a BB gun. I was amazed. I am going to try the same load with a federal 1 oz wad this weekend. The federal hull seems to be much better in terms of recoil. I hope it is the same with a 11/8 oz load.

Jacky
 
The Fed. hull has much more internal cap. and usually doesn't use the same load or wad, fed. hulls are straight inside while W-W are tapered, my guess is that the load in the Fed. hull is much slower with your load, you also have to watch for squib loads as powder will migrate up along side the wad with that combo.
 
Ben is right on with his info. The Federal Gold Medal hulls typicaly (but not always..please check the factory data)) use about 1 grn more powder and a much hotter Fed209A primer to get the same veloicty as a Win AA hull. The load you have is probably around 1000fps or less. He's also right on with the info about the wad being for a tapered hull. They will work alright if you load them and then shoot them but carry them around for a while and you will get powder migrate from under the wad to over which can cause very light or "blooper" loads. The factory data does show the Win. grey wad but just because they show it does always mean it works best. The Fed 12S0 or a clone is the right wad to use in the Fed hulls. You will how ever notice that because of the greater capacity (about 5%) and the light load your shooting your crimps maybe be somewhat dished. Using 35lbs wad pressure or less will ehlp with that. A wad that will work in both hulls is the Claybuster Lightning (CB 4100-12B) . They are an 8 petal wad instead of 4 petal and are my favorite for 7/8oz and light 1oz loads because of how well they pattern and how versitile they are. I load 5,000+ of them a year. The rest of my standard and heavy 1oz loads I use the Claybuster Clone of the standard Windjammer (CB 4118-12B)which is also an 8 petal wad. It's a 1 1/8oz wad but once you start getting into 18.5grns+ of a bulky powder like Promo or RedDot it works excellent with 1oz of shot.

Tim
 
I agree with Ben and Trex. Chrony those rounds because they are likely noticeably slower than those in the Winchester hulls.

I load 1 ounce and 7/8s in Federal Gold Medal hulls but use Federal 12SO wads. In the Winchester AA HS two-piece wads I use the AA grey wads for 7/8s ounce loads. I've found in the new Winchester hulls the Claybuster wads don't load as smoothly and can catch on the inside of the hull. I like the Claybuster replacements for 1 ounce loads but only in the older style AA hulls of which I still have a good supply.
 
I have a ton of federal wads both in 1oz and 11/8oz so I actually started using them for 1oz loads. I just thought that the load would be as soft ( as it was with the grey wad) but maybe not ?? I am anxious to try them. After hearing that (above) I don't think I will load the federal hull with the winchester grey wad.

Jacky
 
You'll probably find that the recoil will be similar to the AA hull loads, once you switch to the Fed wads. Perhaps a tad lighter.

You mention in your first post that your crimps in the AA hull are not flat. This may be a good thing, as I have found I get hull bulging problems. I can alleviate the problem by using a 1-1/8 wad with a 1oz load. Only happens with the new AA hulls..
 
I tried out the Federal 1oz load with the 1oz wad and chron'yed a few shells.

16.5 grains of Promo gave 1050fps and was as light as a feather
17.0 grains of Promo gave 1100 fps and was still very light.
I think the 17.0 grain load will be my new singles competition load,
I figure I can miss targets with the best reload's I can make. :)

Jacky
 
the rifleman said:
. I can alleviate the problem by using a 1-1/8 wad with a 1oz load. Only happens with the new AA hulls..
Click to expand...

I got into the habit of doing the same thing with the new AAs. After shooting them for a bit I found that they patterned alot better with the 1 1/8 wad over the 1 oz wad. So much so I now use 1 1/8oz wads for all my 1oz loads. this might not work with light 1oz loads or GM hull but with med-heavy loads in the AA and Rem hulls it works great.


Tim
 
For me, 18.2 grains of Promo (requiring a MEC #32 bushing) in a Federal hull & 1oz wad gets about 1130-1140fps. It's a nice skeet load, but just a tad light for some of the longer sporting clays shots.
 
I use almost the exact loads that both Beretta Boy and Bernie use. The one thing I'd like to say though is while Bernie is getting an 18.2 grn drop of promo with a #32 bushing each new jug of Promo needs to be checked and weighed to ensure you are getting the drop you think. Promo denisty varies alot from jug to jug. I've used as small as a #30 for 18.1 grns and as large as a #34 for 18.5 grns. It is a great inexpensive powder for reloading though. We go through 4 or 5 8 lb jugs of it a year.

Tim
 
beretta boy said:
My sporting load is 20.0 gr. Promo in the FGM hull with the 12SO or CB equivalent. No problem with Sporting Clays or FITASC targets.
Click to expand...

I have decided to go with the 17.0 grains of promo with the FGM hull and the 12SO wad. It is nice and light for singles and doubles and 1100 fsp is just fine. I would be interested in the speed of your 1oz load using 20.0 grains. Does it crimp well ??

Jacky
 
I use a 1 1/8oz Windjammer or it's CB clone with 1oz of shot when useing 20 grns of promo in a Rem hull. It crimps great. Speed is 1275-1290fps.

Tim
 
TReX300 said:
I use a 1 1/8oz Windjammer or it's CB clone with 1oz of shot when useing 20 grns of promo in a Rem hull. It crimps great. Speed is 1275-1290fps.

Tim
Click to expand...

That is a fast load. I find that for shooting trap I can break them ( miss them) even if my loads are only going 1050 fps. I do like 1100 fps though in the load I am using. Now my long range "turkey shoot" loads are about 1200-1300 fps.....:D

Jacky
 
Jacky:

No idea how "fast" it really is ... supposedly something like 1290 fps.

It crimps just fine in the P/W ... but moreover, it crushes targets, is comfortable to shoot, shows no outward signs of pressure and is a very reliable reload. I agree with TReX300 - check every lot. I go through several 8 lb. jugs a year as well. Tried the "lighter" loads, and found they did not seem to be what I was looking for, especially for the longer targets at sporting.

But ... whatever works for you ! Lots of trap shooters prefer a "light" load for 16's and doubles ... but most of the guys at the back fence prefer something a little stouter !
 
Do any of you use 11/8 oz loads ?? I am considering making some for handicap. They do have more punch though. This year I was using 17.5 grains promo in a Winchester hull for handicap and I think it beat me up a little after a 1000 target weekend. I am hoping the federal hull will be a bit better.

Jacky
 
Not much need for the 1-1/8oz load in short yardage handicap. The 1oz loads still break them fine, if your on the target. I was playing around with some 1-1/8oz loads recently, and I sure noticed the recoil after shooting 1oz loads for so long. My 1oz loads are #8 shot though so I still have a lot of pellets flying down range. A 1-1/8oz load of #7-1/2 shot would give you a better chance of the odd pellet gaining an extra broken target.:)
 
the rifleman said:
Not much need for the 1-1/8oz load in short yardage handicap. The 1oz loads still break them fine, if your on the target. My 1oz loads are #8 shot though so I still have a lot of pellets flying down range. A 1-1/8oz load of #7-1/2 shot would give you a better chance of the odd pellet gaining an extra broken target.:)
Click to expand...

You know that is what I thought as well and it may be true but I was recently told different. Daro Handy told me that for a clay target to break you need a minimum of 3-4 pellets...one odd flyer won't do it. So yes rifleman you are right in that the 1 oz loads will work fine for my short yardage...if I am on the target....:rolleyes:

Now rifleman are you not at about 24-26 yrds now.......I thought you cleaned up at a few shoots this year;) :D :cool: . On another note I fully plan on comming for the same March 18th shoot this year. That was one of my favorite shoots of last year:dancingbanana:

Jacky
 
Cool! You got to meet Daro. I guess it goes without saying that he knows his stuff. Picked up more than one unbroken target that had even 4-5 pellet chips on it. I suspect that they may have been shot at the longer ranges in the caps, or perhaps the second bird on the doubles. That can be one disadvantage of shooting #8 shot, they just don't carry the ft/lbs to break a target at the longer ranges. Better shoot quick!:p

Nah, I'm still shooting short yardage.:redface: I won only one SY handicap this year. Managed to do good in the doubles, and even picked up a couple of trophys at the Canadian Championships for class single wins. If I start shooting from too far back I'll need prescription glasses, as the eyes aren't what they used to be.

Look forward to seeing you again at the March shoot.:)
 
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