Got rid of my WK (too many issues). Never owned an HK. Never actually heard of the Crusader until now. Currently own a Tavor. From all the guns I've used over the years, the Tavor has been the most consistent in reliability (even more than my SKS believe it or not).
WK180C vs Crusader vs HK vs Tavor
- Thread starter Cmaiden39
- Start date
So I got 3 of the 4...don't have the Crusader, so can't comment, but here's how I rank them.
1. X95
2. SL8
3. WK180
X95 is a workhorse and the ergonomics are fabulous. I clean it semi-regularly even though I don't have to. Takes AR-style mags. Bullpup style takes a while to get used to. Disassembly is easy and tool-less, BUT be aware any version after April 2020 (which the bolt assembly supported 300 BLK) requires additional effort to get the rod extended longer than described in videos in order to take apart bolt assembly. Accuracy is OK, but nothing to write home about. Eats any 5.56 or .223 I have put through it. Did I mention the weight balance is superb? Lots of rail space / places to put accessories. Mag release, safe/fire switch all easily accessible. Also don't ride that charging handle. Comes with nice soft case which custom fits this, and a small cleaning kit a well as a metal DuraMag (at least for me) - pinned to 5. I run LAR15 mags through this and it runs great.
SL8. Just got this recently (got the 4). Love, love, love it. Accurate out of the box. Weight is not as bad as some have reported with heavy barrel (which for small statured guy like me I don't have an issue). Only downside is the proprietary 5-round HK mags (which are expensive) - yes there are conversion magwell kits to run other mags, but I think those run a pretty penny. Oh, one other downside is that it does require tools for some screws - HK does supply an all in one allen wrench kit. Nice hard case is included as well. Just very solid firearm. Oh, and recoil is light (I know 5.56 / .223 recoil is really nothing, but it is noticeably lighter on this rifle). But accuracy is impressive, even with a cheaper red dot. I'd say this is the most accurate of all three I listed here. Comes with 1 x proprietary double stacked pinned/blocked to HK 5 mag.
WK180 - I can only speak to the gen 1.5 (threaded CH). Fun rifle to shoot, but mystery rattles. Reported issues with CH shearing off and also piston rod breaking (which may be related to the loose gas block screws - I was able to locate and tighten mine as preventative maintenance). I don't like the fact that no matter how much I tighten it with a metal rod, the threaded CH comes loose with a few shots (I could loctite it but then I clean it each time and don't want to reapply) - would have been nice if they designed a better way to tighten it rather than stick a thin piece of metal through the two holes. The hairpin retaining pin on the bolt assembly can be problematic to put back. I have had to reach out to KD for some parts, and the customer service has been very good (responsive) - I stripped the handguard screws and they sent me a bunch of replacements for free and very quickly. This rifle does not come with a case or accessories other than a pinned to 5 PMAG or DuraMag. General take apart to clean/field strip is tool less.
1. X95
2. SL8
3. WK180
X95 is a workhorse and the ergonomics are fabulous. I clean it semi-regularly even though I don't have to. Takes AR-style mags. Bullpup style takes a while to get used to. Disassembly is easy and tool-less, BUT be aware any version after April 2020 (which the bolt assembly supported 300 BLK) requires additional effort to get the rod extended longer than described in videos in order to take apart bolt assembly. Accuracy is OK, but nothing to write home about. Eats any 5.56 or .223 I have put through it. Did I mention the weight balance is superb? Lots of rail space / places to put accessories. Mag release, safe/fire switch all easily accessible. Also don't ride that charging handle. Comes with nice soft case which custom fits this, and a small cleaning kit a well as a metal DuraMag (at least for me) - pinned to 5. I run LAR15 mags through this and it runs great.
SL8. Just got this recently (got the 4). Love, love, love it. Accurate out of the box. Weight is not as bad as some have reported with heavy barrel (which for small statured guy like me I don't have an issue). Only downside is the proprietary 5-round HK mags (which are expensive) - yes there are conversion magwell kits to run other mags, but I think those run a pretty penny. Oh, one other downside is that it does require tools for some screws - HK does supply an all in one allen wrench kit. Nice hard case is included as well. Just very solid firearm. Oh, and recoil is light (I know 5.56 / .223 recoil is really nothing, but it is noticeably lighter on this rifle). But accuracy is impressive, even with a cheaper red dot. I'd say this is the most accurate of all three I listed here. Comes with 1 x proprietary double stacked pinned/blocked to HK 5 mag.
WK180 - I can only speak to the gen 1.5 (threaded CH). Fun rifle to shoot, but mystery rattles. Reported issues with CH shearing off and also piston rod breaking (which may be related to the loose gas block screws - I was able to locate and tighten mine as preventative maintenance). I don't like the fact that no matter how much I tighten it with a metal rod, the threaded CH comes loose with a few shots (I could loctite it but then I clean it each time and don't want to reapply) - would have been nice if they designed a better way to tighten it rather than stick a thin piece of metal through the two holes. The hairpin retaining pin on the bolt assembly can be problematic to put back. I have had to reach out to KD for some parts, and the customer service has been very good (responsive) - I stripped the handguard screws and they sent me a bunch of replacements for free and very quickly. This rifle does not come with a case or accessories other than a pinned to 5 PMAG or DuraMag. General take apart to clean/field strip is tool less.
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Considering the cost of the X95 and WK180, they had darn well better be ranked higher than the WK180. At roughly 3x the cost, anyone would be seriously pissed if their rifle wasn't better.
The question is, for the money, is the WK180 a worthwhile purchase? Given the parameters of a $1200 rifle I think the WK180 is an excellent value. Yep, its had some teething problems but then some rifles costing twice as much have teething problems too.
The WK180 is a decent product at a decent price. It is not a military spec rifle and it prob won't stand up to huge amounts of abuse but then anyone who thinks they can get a MIL spec rifle that will last forever, for $1200 is a dumbass.
It is one thing to rank rifles for quality etc but we all have to buy these rifles with our own hard earned money, so ignoring the cost of each rifle is foolish. Both cost and quality are important factors in a purchase decision .... hence the proliferation of the SKS in Canada.
The cost factor is a very fair point. And I agree, if one pays more one expects commensurate quality and performance. My old NR Kriss Vector was almost double the cost of my PC Carbine. But the PC Carbine for me was the much better gun in a number of areas. A lot of the features of the KV were just not relevant (such as vectoring a 9mm round which barely has any recoil on a SA PCC to begin with).
There was a point in my life where other factors came into play. I was willing to give a wider berth for a Canadian made product and would almost be preferential in choosing a Canadian made product.
Certainly for a semi auto .223/5.56 at that price point, the value is not bad insofar as the WK goes. I bought a MRA Renegade for around the same price and even though it is not a SA, I much prefer the WK, since the straight pull thing has never grown on me...not one bit.
I heard the MCR is the better rifle, but you make a good point with cost - it's not really an apples to apples comparison - well, maybe the WK180 Gen 2 vs the original MCR, which I think still costs more and people have seen it's what the WK would have been with all the bugs worked out.
There is perhaps another 5.56/.223 SA option - the Norinco Type 97, which, although I don't own, seems to have many happy owners. That is/was about the same price point as the original WK (Gen 1.5 anyway)
I am lefty so the T97 is a non-starter for me and the Tavor just adds $300 - $500 to the price to get it set up for left handed use. Hence why I chose the Keltec RDB.
The RDB is far from perfect but its a neat rifle and it works reasonably well for an intermediate price point. It has a better trigger than the Tavor and is lefty friendly.
