WMU 60: Deer behaviour

9.3mauser said:
It's not party hunting if the other guy's not even out in the bush.
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Camp cooks of organized groups are considered part of the group as long as they are licenced and can communicate with members in the field... the camp cook cannot be at home in bed 50 miles away.
 
Ar180shooter said:
Thanks.

It caused a bit of an argument in my camp actually. I wanted to keep my tag for archery season (as I prefer to go for the big bucks, while the rest of the group only meat hunts), so I asked if one of the older guys that never shoots anything (and was asleep in bed when I shot it :rolleyes:) would tag it and he refused, but still wanted an equal share. Maybe I'm making a big deal out of it but I am pissed about this, lol.
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This situation is what causes a lot of strife in the camps I have been in in the past. Best suggestion try to communicate your archery tags deal befor the hunt, next suggestion get a fish bowl, each guys tag goes in at the start of the week and each guy pulls a tag as the deer go down .....if you're Lucky yours get pulled last or you don't fill them all and yours is still in the bowl. outside of that find a new group or become a dedicated bow hunter
 
hoytcanon said:
Camp cooks of organized groups are considered part of the group as long as they are licenced and can communicate with members in the field... the camp cook cannot be at home in bed 50 miles away.
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By whom?

Firstly, I have assumed that the OP is in Ontario though he has listed his location in his profile as 'Canada'. If other provinces/Territories use the term 'WMU' and have a WMU60, then maybe I'm wrong but there is absolutely no mention of camp cooks being considered to be participating in a hunt in the Ontario Hunting regulations. There are however definitions of 'hunting' and 'party hunting' and neither of these definitions include sleeping in bed. Maybe there are some COs out there that would look the other way on this, but that doesn't make it legal and other people reading this stuff might think it's OK and get busted and then have to 'debate' it with the judge. I don't see how this is at all 'debatable'.

Hunting regulations definition of hunting said:
Includes lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of, pursuing, chasing or shooting at wildlife, whether or not the wildlife is killed, injured, captured or harassed.
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I don't see any mention of cooking or sleeping in camp here.

Hunting regulations definition of party hunting said:
Party Hunting
A person may hunt moose, deer or black bear in a party even if the person has previously attached his or her game seal to a moose, deer or black bear. A person may also hunt elk in a party with some restrictions in addition to the conditions listed below - see page 53 for more information on Modified Party Hunting for Elk. The term “Party Hunting” means two or more persons hunting during an open season for moose, elk, deer or black bear under all of the following conditions:
• Each person has a valid licence to hunt the big game species being hunted.
• The total number of moose, elk, deer or black bear killed by the party does not exceed the total number of game seals held by the members of the party licensed to hunt that species.
• The total number of moose, elk, deer or black bear of a specified ###, age or type killed by the party does not exceed the total number of game seals validated for that ###, age, or type that are held by members of the party.
• All members of the party hunt together in the same Wildlife Management Unit or portion thereof for which the game seal is valid.
• Each member of the party hunts within five kilometres of the person who holds the game seal that is valid for the wildlife being hunted.
• Each member of the party must be able to reliably and immediately communicate with other members of the party.
• All members of the party, including the person who holds the seal that is valid for the wildlife that the party is hunting, actively participate in the hunt and hunt co-operatively.
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So maybe the guy sleeping is within 5 kilometers of the rest of the guys and maybe he can communicate with them, but the regs say 'all of the following conditions' and the sleeper fails on the last point because he is clearly not hunting according to the definition in the regulations.

It seems to me that there are lots of guys giving advice on hunting regulations whose sole knowledge of them is based on what some other guy told them instead of reading the book.
 
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birdinator said:
By whom?

Firstly, I have assumed that the OP is in Ontario though he has listed his location in his profile as 'Canada'. If other provinces/Territories use the term 'WMU' and have a WMU60, then maybe I'm wrong but there is absolutely no mention of camp cooks being considered to be participating in a hunt in the Ontario Hunting regulations. There are however definitions of 'hunting' and 'party hunting' and neither of these definitions include sleeping in bed. Maybe there are some COs out there that would look the other way on this, but that doesn't make it legal and other people reading this stuff might think it's OK and get busted and then have to 'debate' it with the judge. I don't see how this is at all 'debatable'.



I don't see any mention of cooking or sleeping in camp here.



So maybe the guy sleeping is within 5 kilometers of the rest of the guys and maybe he can communicate with them, but the regs say 'all of the following conditions' and the sleeper fails on the last point because he is clearly not hunting according to the definition in the regulations.

It seems to me that there are lots of guys giving advice on hunting regulations whose sole knowledge of them is based on what some other guy told them instead of reading the book.
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We read the regs... and then we spoke with the local MNR office and local CO's on the interpretation of "active participants" of the hunt... it was related to our party that party members who are licenced and meet other criteria, including direct communication, are considered "party members," our example was the "camp cook" which in our groups was a revolving duty... definitely room for interpretation, and we sought out as "official" an interpretation as we could find... so there you have it... take it for what it's worth.
 
I agree with everyone that suggests sorting these things in advance is a good idea and solves a lot of problems..... in our camp, we try and save tags for those hunting week two as well as archery and black powder..... but everyone is expected to apply for a doe tag and that tag is fair game when needed.....

As for the sharing of tags, the definition of "participating in the hunt" is laid out very sketchily.....
 
I'm confused... the weather / behavioural traits of deer in Ontario WMU60 veered sharp left into party hunting and tag sharing ... I'm not even sure how it went that direction LOL :D
 
Arclight said:
I am so glad i dont have to have fights with my friends over stuff like this. It is all decided beforehand. This year it will be anyone who shoots a buck. They are scarce. Anything with 3" of antlers is fair game.
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It's no biggie, I've talked with the other guys at the camp and they feel similar to how I feel about it. I'm ok with cutting the old guy some slack as he ran the camp for years (he's in his 70's now with limited mobility) until his son took it over, and his son was even surprised he wouldn't tag it. He'll probably talk to him about it after the week is over and iron things out. Everyone wants to keep me in the camp because I do my fair share of the work (dragging, skinning, meals, etc) and I'm one of the better shooters, and I want to stay in the group because the main group of hunters are all good at it and hard workers.
 
hoytcanon said:
We read the regs... and then we spoke with the local MNR office and local CO's on the interpretation of "active participants" of the hunt... it was related to our party that party members who are licenced and meet other criteria, including direct communication, are considered "party members," our example was the "camp cook" which in our groups was a revolving duty... definitely room for interpretation, and we sought out as "official" an interpretation as we could find... so there you have it... take it for what it's worth.
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I see it more as a way of making it so that you can't just haphazardly shoot deer, then try to find guys that will tag it. As long as the members of the group are pre-established, and are either at the camp or out hunting within a reasonable distance, it's hard to argue they are not actively participating in the hunt. If the one members contribution happens to be sleeping in a little bit, then having lunch ready for everyone, that seems like active participation to me.
 
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M16LR.50 said:
I'm confused... the weather / behavioural traits of deer in Ontario WMU60 veered sharp left into party hunting and tag sharing ... I'm not even sure how it went that direction LOL :D
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Sorry for the derail, LOL.

Yesterday we saw very little activity due to the wind. I had a small doe get spooked by the gut pile I haas by the kill site of the dee rigor the day before. She didn't flag but turned around and went back the way she came. She then wandered around for about 30 min, 50 yards or so in front of me before finally leaving. Nobody else in my group saw any deer that day. One of the guys says he took a crack at a timber wolf, not sure if they're in this area, I've never seen one, I'm thinking it was likely a big coy wolf.

One of the other guys saw a coyote this morning but didn't get a shot on it. There has been very little shooting going on as well.
 
So rifle season was an event less experience for me again (2nd year at hunting). I saw a dad and son in the same area (they went elsewhere when they saw my ground blind). Later in the day as I started to start move around I met up with them and they told me the son missed a shot on a good sized buck. We chatted for a bit but in general we didn't see activity.

I am planning to go back in first week of December for archery. Assuming the weather gets colder, what do bucks typically respond better to in that late season hunt?
 
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