World s longest range sniper rifle to be unveiled in 2020

kodiakjack said:
I’ve never heard drop referred to in “moa” before...

The whole point of using “moa” for accuracy is that it allows the reader to interpolate accuracy at unspecified distances. One can reasonably guess what the group size will be at any given distance, because the variation from the point of aim is (relatively) constant.

But drop? Drop is exponential. It’s not a constant. To say the Cheytac drops 148 moa at 3000yards is an extra and unnecessary calculation. It doesn’t translate to any other distance. It’s easier to just say it drops 370 feet at 3000 yards.
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Moa is also an exponential. And i have routinely heard drop mentioned in MOA, because my scope elevations adjusts in MOA...
 
So even if she is a 1/2 moa gun...

Best possible scenario you are talking over 70" at 7km..

Don't get me wrong... but why not just use artillery?
 
Unless they're using DARPA guided bullets or something, I don't really see how an amateur could reliably hit targets at 7km. Like others have pointed out, shooter (and spotter) skill is a significant factor here. Plus there are *so* many environmental factors to consider at that distance.
 
Allow me to summarize your posts:

kthomas said:
WTF you talking about Willis?

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Alpheus said:
I'll have a go.

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Thanks fellas. Lol. I’m not always the brightest bulb in the pack.

Fun fact: there’s no good gif out there for “got your ass handed to you”
 
Alpheus said:
Ah yes, the more-memes-wins-arguments approach. I believe Aristotle pioneered this method. :rolleyes:

Plus one to the ignore list.
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Well, you’re free to put me on ignore if you’d like of course, but those gifs were my attempt to say “you’re right, I’m wrong”, with a touch of humor. Guess it didn’t translate well. My bad.
 
Mach 4 - 4500fps
Mach 5 - 5626fps

Are we working with 120mm sabot rds?

25mm Bushmaster rd... suggested effective range 3000m... max range 6800m (wiki info)


[youtube]RUJSaeE3EKY[/youtube]

or maybe a better version of something like this????


Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
Mach 4 - 4500fps
Mach 5 - 5626fps

Are we working with 120mm sabot rds?

25mm Bushmaster rd... suggested effective range 3000m... max range 6800m (wiki info)


[youtube]RUJSaeE3EKY[/youtube]

or maybe a better version of something like this????


Jerry
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There's a few companies working on higher pressure rounds to get more velocity from rifle systems. Of course, this requires a rework of the whole system.

Some happen to believe that the SAAMI pressure specs are outdated tech and a big handicap to ELR type shooting. Why handicap ourselves to a pressure limit that's ~100 years old?
 
kthomas said:
There's a few companies working on higher pressure rounds to get more velocity from rifle systems. Of course, this requires a rework of the whole system.

Some happen to believe that the SAAMI pressure specs are outdated tech and a big handicap to ELR type shooting. Why handicap ourselves to a pressure limit that's ~100 years old?
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Because we haven't invented any new elements in those 100 years, I would say is the main reason.
 
ive talked to some people that believe their cooey 22lr has that kinda accuracy.. lol
theres alway some one talkin up a pos !

get your snake oil here.. its da best
 
adamg said:
Because we haven't invented any new elements in those 100 years, I would say is the main reason.
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What about Element-115 :p

Companies have forever boxed themselves in to SAAMI pressures, rarely if ever venturing out of that box. There hasn't been much reason to do so until recently, we are seeing a renaissance in ELR shooting and as a result our equipment and projectiles have dramatically improved in quality and performance. We are at the point where higher pressures can certainly provide a step change to the industry, but that statement wouldn't be true 50 or even 10 years ago.

We were able to send people to the moon 51 years ago with less technology then we currently have in our cellphones. Surely we can create a new system that can handle more pressure - and there are currently a few companies that also feel the same and are currently on that exact mission.
 
kthomas said:
There's a few companies working on higher pressure rounds to get more velocity from rifle systems. Of course, this requires a rework of the whole system.

Some happen to believe that the SAAMI pressure specs are outdated tech and a big handicap to ELR type shooting. Why handicap ourselves to a pressure limit that's ~100 years old?
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Any firearm manufacturer is free to invent their own chambering, pressure test their firearm accordingly, and publish the rated max pressure for that round. Likewise they can take an existing chambering, and do a max pressure test on their firearm, and publish their own rated maximums. SAAMI is simply an industry spec to ensure interoperability. There are lots of customs guns that don't have a SAAMI specification, and nothing in law requires any Canadian manufacturer to conform to SAAMI.

So answer your own question, if any manufacturer can give a higher than SAAMI max pressure for their gun, and there is a commercial benefit to marketing a firearm as exceeding saami max pressure by ###, then why have they not done so?

I suspect the answer is because handloaders will always seek to find their own max pressure, and max pressure in fact tends to be not more than 2-3% higher than published max. The weak link in the chain tends to be the brass, not the firearm. And that is be design. Case failure is far less dangerous than chamber/receiver failure.
 
Tikka223 said:
How are you suppose to positively identify a man sized target 7km away? Are there man-portable optics that can do this? Not to mention, 7km line of sight to a target probably doesn’t happen too frequently.
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Maybe they plan on invading the Prairies.
 
Cameron SS said:
Any firearm manufacturer is free to invent their own chambering, pressure test their firearm accordingly, and publish the rated max pressure for that round. Likewise they can take an existing chambering, and do a max pressure test on their firearm, and publish their own rated maximums. SAAMI is simply an industry spec to ensure interoperability. There are lots of customs guns that don't have a SAAMI specification, and nothing in law requires any Canadian manufacturer to conform to SAAMI.

So answer your own question, if any manufacturer can give a higher than SAAMI max pressure for their gun, and there is a commercial benefit to marketing a firearm as exceeding saami max pressure by ###, then why have they not done so?

I suspect the answer is because handloaders will always seek to find their own max pressure, and max pressure in fact tends to be not more than 2-3% higher than published max. The weak link in the chain tends to be the brass, not the firearm. And that is be design. Case failure is far less dangerous than chamber/receiver failure.
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They haven't done it for multiple reasons.

1. Their hasn't been much reason to do so until lately. There was many other limiting factors in the system. Scopes, projectiles, etc. With the advancement we have seen in projectiles (high BC for weight lathe turned solids), scopes, devices such as the Charlie Tarac, generally better manufacturing processes and QA/QC controls, we are now just finally starting to see the limits of the current systems in the ELR world and looking for the next step change.

2. You can't just design a round with higher pressure and hope that people don't blow their rifles up and take you to court. To design higher pressure rounds without creating a system that can safely tolerate those rounds is inviting disaster. Most companies don't see the need to spend the amount of time and resources to develop higher pressure rounds AND a rifle system that's capable of firing those rounds safely.

There is one company, called Hoplite Arms down in the US, that is creating both new higher pressure ammo, and the rifle systems to handle that higher pressure. By virtue of the owners past experience they are heavily tied into the defense industry, and they obviously see a niche market where they can step in and provide a better solution to ELR solutions, and they obviously feel confident that governments and individuals will see enough benefit that they will buy these systems.

If you can create a system that can safely shoot a .375 ~400 grain projectile at ~4,500-5,000 fps, that's obviously going to have a huge advantage over that same projectile that shoots at ~2,900 - 3,000 fps. That's not even debatable. Until now, companies haven't really looked to explore this opportunity, because we weren't limiting out the potential of our systems. Now we are.
 
kodiakjack said:
But didn’t you hear?! Even amateurs can do it now!

“ The muzzle velocity is expected to be at least from 4 to 5 Mach (ie. 4 or 5 times faster than the speed of sound). This means that bullets will fly out of the rifle with a speed of 1,200-1,500 meters per second. One of these cartridges will give the rifle the accuracy of around 70 MOA (Minute of Angle) for 3,000-meter (3,280 yd) targets, Lobaev says.

To put it simply and translate sniper terminology into common language, rifle capabilities allow even an amateur shooter to easily hit targets many kilometers away from them. Previously, it took years of professional training to teach a person to hit far away targets. For example, in mid-2017, it was reported that an unnamed Canadian special forces soldier, based in Iraq, had set a new record hitting a target 3,540 meters (3,871 yd) away.”

And check out that accuracy!! 70moa at 3000 meters! That’s a pretty tight grouping of 191... FEET! Lol. Who wrote this garbage? North Korea’s press core?
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I laughed out loud. Awesome!
 
Take it for where it hails! Remember how many tanks they had during the cold war and some of them were even real. The remainder were of painted cardboard and paper mache. If the gun was going to exist it would already be in the US arsenal and none of us would have any idea of it. Or would we HAHA. I didnt stay at a Holiday Inn last night
 
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