World War One Colt M1911 - Pictures/Questions - UPDATED pg 3

ArtyMan

ArtyMan

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Hey guys,

Recently I picked up a 1918 dated Colt M1911 in a trade. I have a few questions so I figured I would post pictures and see if anyone had any answers. To start, the serial number falls in the 314### range, which puts it at May/June of 1918 from what I've read. My biggest question is why does the frame not have the heart shaped cuts under the grips like other 1918 dated Colts? Also, since the pistol has a lot of patina/browning, it is difficult to tell if this was a "black army" Colt. Is there any way to tell? Also the United States Property marking was buffed off (part of the "rty"). I have read that this was done as it was a felony to have a USP marked weapon in your property, and was commonly done by vets and criminals alike. Can anyomne shed any light on this?

When I was cleaning the pistol today I found a neat surprise! under the left grip the letters "R.T. and 44" are carved. I am just wondering if there is any way to tell what this means? a guys initials I guess, but the 44 has me puzzled. I originally thought ser num of the troop but only two numbers? Then perhaps a year? or a unit marking ie. 44th Infantry Division?

Any insight/comments appreciated!
The pictures!

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the browning/patina under light

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Thanks for looking!
 
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Please reduce the size of your pictures.
The 'RT 44' could be anything. Most likely a guy's initials and the year. 1911's weren't destroyed just because the A1 came along. Might have been a National Guard issue.
"...felony to have a USP marked weapon in your property..." Nope. Nearly all Lend/Lease firearms have it. Had a Savage made No. 4 Rifle on my MIU with it, long ago.
No felonies in Canada either. It's a U.S. term.
Haven't a clue about the heart shaped cuts. Possibly a change in manufacturing for war time production eliminated 'em or added 'em. The U.S. wasn't in W.W. I until 1917.
 
sunray said:
Please reduce the size of your pictures.
The 'RT 44' could be anything. Most likely a guy's initials and the year. 1911's weren't destroyed just because the A1 came along. Might have been a National Guard issue.
"...felony to have a USP marked weapon in your property..." Nope. Nearly all Lend/Lease firearms have it. Had a Savage made No. 4 Rifle on my MIU with it, long ago.
No felonies in Canada either. It's a U.S. term.
Haven't a clue about the heart shaped cuts. Possibly a change in manufacturing for war time production eliminated 'em or added 'em. The U.S. wasn't in W.W. I until 1917.
Click to expand...

How do I reduce the size of my pictures?

In regards to the felony statement, I realize it is a US term but as this is a US pistol and what I have read in regards to this referred to a US law I felt it was appropriate.

I originally read this on w ww.coolgunsite.com If you go to "1911 gallery" and scroll down until you see "1918 Colt - gangster gun?" you will see a short couple lines on the subject "The mob would remove the "U.S. Property" because it was a felony to be caught with a "U.S. Property" stamped gun."

I have also seen on a few forums that this was done by vets who brought the piece back. Anyone with ANY sort of knowledge on this subject please chime in! If its a bubba etc... let me know! I am just anxious to learn more.

Thanks
 
Try e-mailing your pictures to yourself first, before uploading to a websight like photobucket and posting here. Hotmail tends to easily re-size them to a much more managable size.
 
Very nice pistol! I have a two-tone mag I don't really need - PM me and maybe we can make a deal.
 
Nice .45

I tend to agree that the "R T 44" scratched inside the grip was probably someone's initials and date.

Many "personal" sidearms were carried by people for various reasons. For example, I knew a SeaBee (C.B. Construction Battalion) bulldozer driver who had to use his old Colt 45 SAA to shoot three Japanese soldiers off his Bulldozer while he was building an airstrip on an island in the South Pacific.

The SeaBees were civilians who built installations for the U.S. Navy, and were not supposed to have weapons, but if he didn't have one, he probably would not have returned to tell that story.

A lot of liberated German Lugers and P-38s were not turned in, but kept by the finder. They made great trading stock with the rear echelon troops.

If these guns could only tell their story!
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Look at this site...this guySam Lisker knows his Colt's for sure. I e-mailed him and he is very, very easy guy to talk to.

http://www.coltautos.com/

And really....seriously.... S/N is # 314 !!!??? That's GOT to be worthy of further investigation. Talk to Sam...he'll tell you whatcha got in a second.

Also, Colt Industries can ( for $100 bucks, unfortunately..) research and send you an Official Colt certificate telling all kinds of neat things about your particular Colt. It will say what finish the pistol left their factory with.

I got one for my A1 Commercial Remumber. Well worth it , I'd say.

Oh yeah...don't forget to report back on what he says! I'm interested to see... what with the low s/n and all.
 
Thanks for the comments guys, I will definitely do some further research. Just a note the last three of the serial number have been photoshopped out :p. It is a standard 6 digit number
 
There should be a number at the rear of the slide, under the firing pin stop. Does it match the number on the receiver? The photos show two different colors on slide and frame. Though frames and slides are made of different metals to avoid galling and would show a different patina over time, I'm thinking it could be a mismatched or refurbished gun too.

Is that a crack under the ejection port, or is that just a scratch on the slide?

Nice example nonetheless. I've always loved the early 1911s. Thanks for posting those photos.
 
It is a small scratch, under different light the pistols patina matches, but at different angles one appears more "brown" wheres on other light the other appears more "brown"! I will check the numbers when I take er apart later today
 
chofo said:
Look at this site...this guySam Lisker knows his Colt's for sure. I e-mailed him and he is very, very easy guy to talk to.

http://www.coltautos.com/

And really....seriously.... S/N is # 314 !!!??? That's GOT to be worthy of further investigation. Talk to Sam...he'll tell you whatcha got in a second.

Also, Colt Industries can ( for $100 bucks, unfortunately..) research and send you an Official Colt certificate telling all kinds of neat things about your particular Colt. It will say what finish the pistol left their factory with.

I got one for my A1 Commercial Remumber. Well worth it , I'd say.

Oh yeah...don't forget to report back on what he says! I'm interested to see... what with the low s/n and all.
Click to expand...

That's not actually the 314th 1911, that's no. 314. Big difference. :) Think of it as a lot number, military system. Tens of thousands had been rolled out by then. I have a 1914 Colt 1911, serial 92XX, shipped to the Canadian military in 1914. Only found out that last bit due to the Colt factory letter, it's worth spending for, mine came with the gun but if it didn't I'd be paying for one.
 
ArtyMan said:
Also wondering if anyone would know where to track down an original 2 tone magazine and WW1 holster?
Click to expand...

I've got a couple of those mags with my 1916 Colt 1911. They were going on ebay when you could sell them for about $150. bucks. Mine was made for the Canadian Service I believe and is still registered as a .455. I guess later they put a .45 barrell and slide on it. I have packmeyer grips on it now but still have the grips which I think are original.
 
Actually the Canadian service 1911s were in .45, only the British military ever bought one in .455. Does it say have the W-prefix serial number? Otherwise that's likely a registry error.

As well, the .455 model used a slightly wider mag that's stamped CAL .455 ELEY on the floorplate (and tends to sell for like $200). It won't fit in a .45 1911. If you swap out the barrel the .455 mag with feed .45 round just fine, or a .455 frame can use a .45 mag, but the reverse isn't true.

Just because, here's my .455:

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