wounded moose

[BIGREDD]

My friend said he was aiming at the front shoulder.
While being a good shot, it was/would have been his first moose.
He was still shaking when I got there.
150gr SST Hornady is what he used.

Why there was no blood in little over 50 yards?

I thought he was using B/T's.... I have no confidence in SST's on Big Game.... I have seen jacket seperation with them at high velocity.

I think Gatehouse has the most plausible explanation... high on the shoulder due to shooter error... and lousy bullet performance due to using the wrong bullet for the job. This would explain the lack of blood and the Moose getting up and running away.

If there was very little penetration, there would be only the entrance wound to bleed out of.
If it was high on the shoulder and hit no vitals... it would take a long time for the blood to run down the shoulder to the ground!

 

[DarrylDB]

I thought he was using B/T's.... I have no confidence in SST's on Big Game.... I have seen jacket seperation with them at high velocity.

I think Gatehouse has the most plausible explanation... high on the shoulder due to shooter error... and lousy bullet performance due to using the wrong bullet for the job. This would explain the lack of blood and the Moose getting up and running away.

If there was very little penetration, there would be only the entrance wound to bleed out of.
If it was high on the shoulder and hit no vitals... it would take a long time for the blood to run down the shoulder to the ground!

I seen first hand exactly the opposite with a 130 gr SST this year out of a 270 win. (at approximately 40 yards)
The bullet entered the lungs as the buck was quartering away. and blasted out just inside of the shoulder. Turned the lungs to soup, and the deer went 25 yards and piled up dead. The doe went farther after being hit in basically the same spot with a 250 gr 35 cal bullet a few days later, both wounds were messy.
Sorry, Im still not sold on the fact that I need super bonded bullets for standard cartridges. I have a relative that shoots his moose and deer every year with a 139 gr BT in his 7mm rem mag. The guy has shot more moose than anyone I know, and has yet to lose one.
Who am I to tell a hunter more successful than I that he's using the wrong bullet?
Redd, Im not hacking on you buddy, but Im just not sold on why I have to spend twice as much for an accubond than a ballistic tip, or SST. Unless I have a magnum (and I allways hunted with Fail safes in my 300 win mag, though not convinced it was required) I dont see the need.
A lost animal is an excuse to blame everything but the shooter. the gun, mounts, scope, bullet, ammo, boots that made your feet cold... and the list goes on. The problem with a lost wounded animal is you cant find the animal to ensure the hit was solid, and it was indeed the bullets fault.
But often its an easy scapegoat to us nit picking Internet bickerer's

 

[Kenny_G2]

I would have to agree with Big Redd. I am not familiar with the SST but a quick look at it on the Hornady website indicates to me it is not made for moose but I think it would be great for deer. I am sure the SST would kill a moose with the proper shot placement which is fine if you are lucky and get that shot in the field or have the self control to pass on taking a questionable shot.

I lost one moose in my hunting career (and I have no delusions that it survived) and it was due to the fact I did not look at the ballistics of the bullet and cartridge I was using. Although it was a 180 grain 308 bullet it was not built to penetrate nor did it have enough downrange energy to work on moose. I have since changed to winchester silvertips and have had great success.

I agree with most that the premium bullets are not necessary to kill a moose but you do have to have a bullet that can penetrate or enough gun that it does not matter. I have had a 338 bullet fail when I shot a moose in the shoulder and have had my 308 silvertips penetrate both shoulders on a moose, a 1/2 inch can make a big difference.

My question to the original post would be, how long did you wait before tracking? I always wait 30 minutes unless it drops in its tracks. If you have only a little bit of blood in the first 50 yards, give him another hour. I neck shot a big bull one year (I was aiming for a high shoulder or spine shot over some swamp grass) and he went down in his tracks, across a swamp 200 yards away. May partner and I left him for 1.5 hours while we went to get the canoe. On our return we found he had got back up and took off into the bush. He went 50 yards with very little blood trail and laid down. He had gotten back up and went another 50 yards with no blood trail. We tracked him down and got to with in 10 yards of him before he looked up, he could barely move his head and we finished him off. The bullet did not hit anything vital but the extra time was enough for him to stiffen up. The point is that hunters often don't wait long enough or wait the customary 15 minutes but don't back away once they see the 'signs' of a bad shot.

Besides the shot location and bullet selection, shooting down a road strikes me as being rather questionable as well.

 

[1899]

Redd, Im not hacking on you buddy, but Im just not sold on why I have to spend twice as much for an accubond than a ballistic tip, or SST. Unless I have a magnum (and I allways hunted with Fail safes in my 300 win mag, though not convinced it was required) I dont see the need.
:

.308 cal. 180gr Ballistic Tips are $18.99 for 50, in Accubonds they are $25.99, so the increase is $0.14/ bullet. THAT is a concern? A Ballistic tip will (from my limited experience) shoot to the same with the same load as an Accubond, so they are good for practice. I think $7 extra for 50 shots is reasonable, even if you practice a go through two boxes of Accubonds before your hunt that is only $14, the cost of meal for two at A&W. I dunno, I don't mind paying a little extra for the added performance. Cheap insurance IMHO.


Regarding the moose, maybe the bullet struck some brush before hitting the animal.

 

[Gatehouse]

Daryl

Using a premium bullet that is slightly more expensive (Accubonds are $7 a box more than Ballistic Tips) is not always necessary, for sure.

I use them, and I expect aotof guys use them, for not when things go *right* but when they go *wrong.* I'd say that 80% of the time, a regular bullet would work in most huting situations, but sometimes you want that premium to give you an extra edge.

Plus living here, there is some smal comfort using an X bullet or Partiton, to give you an extra 'edge' in the event of a pissed off grizzly. Even if it is only a mental game you play with yourself, it helps a bit.

 

[Steyr101]

Well, this reminds me a of a deer we got this year... luckilly... very luckilly.

The young hunter was sitting on the edge of a field when a small doe came out. We had a doe tag, and as such told her to take whatever she saw since she had never taken any big game animal, though she has been hunting with us for years.

Well, the first shot missed completely due to being so excited. The second shot however, connected. When examining the area, I did notice a bizarre spray pattern behind the point of impact. It was quite odd, though quite large. We found small drops of blood heading into the woods... dark spots. About 10 yards in, there was a big smear on the the ground, maybe 12 inches long by 4 inches wide, obvioulsy she had stumbled there. And then... the blood REALLY went dry. We found bits of bone, so we knew for sure is was a solid hit, we thought they were more than likely rib bones. As we progressed, we found only very scarce drops, maybe 20 yards apart. It was dark so we resumed the next day. I must admit, the lack of blood made me very unsure of a fatal hot, however the bone pieces gave us hope.

The next morning we resumed the search. It took us about an hour to find anything at all due to the morning condesation. At last we found a single solitary drop. And as the day before, we searched long and hard to find single drops, maybe 20 to 30 yards apart. Sometimes we got lucky and were able to make out the direction of travel. Many times we had to start over at our last known point.

At this point we had travelled about 400 yards, and the blood started to get a little more frequent. Finally after hours of searching, and almost giving up, we found the doe... dead. She had travelled almost 500 yards, with an absolutely demolished shoulder, but other than that, no vital damage. I was amazed she made it that far considering the trauma to her front. Her front leg was hanging on by a few inches of skin.

Im not quite sure what the cause of death was... we never found that much blood, but there was quite a bit of internal bleeding, so I suppose it was due to that.

All this to say that you have to put in a hell of alot of effort to find a poorly hit animal. The blood spray you mentioned is almost identical to what I saw, and the lack of blood is also identical. I would think your buddy had kinda the same hit, and odds are, the moose went down a considerable distance from the shot.

Here's a photo to illustrate...

 

[1899]

Steyr - what caliber, bullet, range etc?

 

[todbartell]

Steyr - what caliber, bullet, range etc?

yeah, looks ugly

let me guess, 223

 

[aacollectible]

I once took a .338 (225gr)SST bullet and a .338 (200gr) B/T bullet side by side, and cut both of them down the middle to see and compare the thickness of the jackets. The SST jacket was "a lot thinner" compared to the B/T. Althought the BT's are lighter, They have a much thicker jacket. I would never use SST's on big game (BT's aren't ideal, but do the trick on moose just fine).

What caliber was your buddy using? My guess is poor shot placement, bullet did not exit, moose will die of internal bleeding.

 

[Steyr101]

Oh ya, the important details.... Tod, you're going to LOVE this!

Rifle was a Remington 710 in .30-06 with Nosler Partition 150gr. reloads. I believe this was the load, as this is what my buddy uses in his Model 700 and it was his daughter that shot the doe. Range was approx 100 yards, and the deer was quartering away.

We were very lucky to find the doe, and she was VERY lucky it ended up being a fatal shot.

 

[eltorro]

Bullet selection was my fault...

The bullet selection was my fault.
I thought they are premium. I really did.
I use Federal 180 NP High Energy in all my hunting rifles. On ocassion I used Hornady's Light magnum 150 SST.

On this hunt I was using an M14, so the HE was not an option. I offered my buddy to use my own stash of "premium". Or so I thought.
Bad choice considering that I also packed some Remington Accutip 165s and - don't laugh - a dozen of FMJ tracers. From what you guys say.... I guess any of the other would have been a better choice for him.

Later that week I shot a nice 10 point buck using the 150 SST. The shot was broadside, 100m or so, lungshot. Died in its tracks. Had to use my hands as a scoop to get 2/3 of the lungs out. Gellatin. The bullet exited, leaving behind small bone fragments from the rib it hit on entrance. Both entry and exit wound were virtually invisible from outside. At first I thought it died of heart attack !!!
After my personal success I would have never thought that the SST was inadequate.

The issue with cheaper bullets is non-existant, as I have plenty of other winchester 150-165 BTs, Remingtons.... and so on in my cabinet all premium ... I thought I made a good choice.

Thank you for pointing these things to me, and now.... to appologize to my friend....