WW1/2 Ithaca 37
- Thread starter mchaley
- Start date
Well, seeing as they didn't come out until 1937, you're going to have a lot of trouble finding one from WWI...
Good repros, with no trigger disconnect (ie: capable of pump-firing), and all the proper furniture (heat shield, bayo lug, and bayo) can go for anywhere from $500 to over $1K, depending on how well the repro was done. A genuine military surplus one from the Vietnam era will go for over $2K in good condition. A WWII era military issue will go for... Well north of $2K.
They weren't produced in anywhere near the same volume as the Garands (which are north of $1K now), and from what I've read, most ended up with the Marines in the Pacific campaign. The heat and humidity of the island campaigns was conducive to a short life span for a lot of them... They rusted out during or shortly after the war. Just not that many of them survived.
They remained in service with the Marines into Vietnam, the last of the military production in the late 60s. Again, heat and humidity spelled a short life for a lot of them.
And they were never really produced in huge numbers.
So, not many to start with, a high percentage suffered the ravages of the climate in the campaigns they served, means there just aren't big numbers of them kicking around.
They're out there, but there's a lot more well done (and poorly done) fakes than there are real ones around. Genuine ones, with provable provenance, don't come up for sale often, and when they do, if the seller's smart, they go to auction houses where they can fetch the best $$.
I may be way off, and someone will surely pipe in and correct me if I'm wrong. Damn fine shotgun, would love to have one in my cabinet, but I'm just not holding my breath on coming across one at a price I'm willing to pay, at a time that I have the money to spare for it.
Good repros, with no trigger disconnect (ie: capable of pump-firing), and all the proper furniture (heat shield, bayo lug, and bayo) can go for anywhere from $500 to over $1K, depending on how well the repro was done. A genuine military surplus one from the Vietnam era will go for over $2K in good condition. A WWII era military issue will go for... Well north of $2K.
They weren't produced in anywhere near the same volume as the Garands (which are north of $1K now), and from what I've read, most ended up with the Marines in the Pacific campaign. The heat and humidity of the island campaigns was conducive to a short life span for a lot of them... They rusted out during or shortly after the war. Just not that many of them survived.
They remained in service with the Marines into Vietnam, the last of the military production in the late 60s. Again, heat and humidity spelled a short life for a lot of them.
And they were never really produced in huge numbers.
So, not many to start with, a high percentage suffered the ravages of the climate in the campaigns they served, means there just aren't big numbers of them kicking around.
They're out there, but there's a lot more well done (and poorly done) fakes than there are real ones around. Genuine ones, with provable provenance, don't come up for sale often, and when they do, if the seller's smart, they go to auction houses where they can fetch the best $$.
I may be way off, and someone will surely pipe in and correct me if I'm wrong. Damn fine shotgun, would love to have one in my cabinet, but I'm just not holding my breath on coming across one at a price I'm willing to pay, at a time that I have the money to spare for it.
That was the Winchester 1897 Trench Gun - basically a beefed up and militarized version of the base Winchester 1897.
The Ithaca 37 didn't come out until 1937 (the model name is a reflection of the year it was released). It actually was designed a number of years earlier, but it violated some patents, so they just waited for the patents to expire and released in 1937.
Not a WWII era shotgun at all. But still a fine shotgun indeed!
Too bad the modern iteration of Ithaca seems to be lacking in much business sense. I remember reading a thread on here where they've switched Canadian distributors once a year for the past 5 or 6 years, and never been able to deliver much product.
I would be tempted to drop the money for one of the new ones anyway, in spite of the cost and hassle just finding one. They have a great reputation for their build quality.
John Browning sold the patents to Remington. There is a story of a prototype that Browning left at the offices of Winchester which sat on the shelf for years. Browning got fed up, stormed into the office, picked up the prototype and licensed it to Remington. When WW1 started, Winchester got the bulk of the military contract for shotguns by improving on the 1897 design. It needed something that was able to compete with Remington but did not infringe on John Browning's patents. The Model 12 was that gun. Winchester model 12 is the original trench gun even though the military did also use the Remington model 10 and the Winchester 1897.
If you did a side by side comparison between the model 12 and model 10, you could see the things Winchester did to avoid infringing on Browning's patents. Quite interesting. Although well built, the model 12 was a complicated pump action, relitively speaking. On the plus side, the model 12 is a tough shotgun, has slam fire capability, very durable and to this day is the best balanced pump action shotgun on the market. I tend to agree with this claim but the I prefer the feel of slimmer stock of the Ithaca 37.
The 37 is a copy of the Remington model 10. It copied the model 10 after the patents had expired. Having said that, Ithaca set out to make improvements to the design to win law enforcement and military contracts. The 37 is the lightest of the 4 shotguns mentioned. It was used in WW2, Vietnam, by police agencies, etc. Similar to the 1897, 12 and 10, it can be slam fired, a feature that was so devestating that after WW1, the Germans unsucessfully petitioned the international community to have the shotgun banned from combat use.
The 37 was designed to have fewer parts than the other shot guns. Ithaca removed all the parts they though were unnecessary thereby making the 37 the lightest of the 4 shotguns. It is also the only shotgun in the group that ejected the spent shells from the bottom. This was said to not only be a benifit to left handed shooters but help keep the receiver and chamber clean. A vintage WW2 example in very good condition will go for over $2000. but you do not need to spend that type of money to get a feel for the type of shotgun used in WW2 unless you are a serious collector. I picked up a 1950s model 37 with a 30" barrel in good condition, the other day for $130. It was from an older fella who bought it new and hunted ducks with it for 60 years. He had it on consignment at a small fishing and tackle shop. Lucky for me, the store was located a couple of blocks from the local Canadian Tires. Lucky because most shooters would reason as to why they would buy a used shotgun for $130 when they can walk down the road and put that money towards a brand new Steven's pump shotgun for $250. If they only knew... A back to back comparison between modern pump actions and these older models and most people would understand why these older pumps are superior.
Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
Get a Model 12 field model in 12ga.
There is no better shotgun ever made.
Bang for buck for simplicity, craftsmanship, reliability nothing even compares.
Every inch of them is solid milled steel. Just a tank of a firearm.
I picked one up from 1927 year production for about $200. Basic field model in 12 gauge.
Finish is gone, wood is beat to #### and scarred, rough handled, some pock rust marks. That's a near 100 year old heavily used through its life cycle shotgun.
The thing cycles shells through it like it was made yesterday. They produced over 2 and half million of them from 1912 to 1964! So there are piles of them just sitting around for next to nothing even up here in Canada. Considering what you get for the price, it's almost ridiculous not to own one Sir.
Like Geraldtao said, just taking one of these old beasts apart for a detailed clean makes you yearn for those bygone years when North American craftsmanship was at a top of the line utilitarian masterpiece level.
There is no better shotgun ever made.
Bang for buck for simplicity, craftsmanship, reliability nothing even compares.
Every inch of them is solid milled steel. Just a tank of a firearm.
I picked one up from 1927 year production for about $200. Basic field model in 12 gauge.
Finish is gone, wood is beat to #### and scarred, rough handled, some pock rust marks. That's a near 100 year old heavily used through its life cycle shotgun.
The thing cycles shells through it like it was made yesterday. They produced over 2 and half million of them from 1912 to 1964! So there are piles of them just sitting around for next to nothing even up here in Canada. Considering what you get for the price, it's almost ridiculous not to own one Sir.
Like Geraldtao said, just taking one of these old beasts apart for a detailed clean makes you yearn for those bygone years when North American craftsmanship was at a top of the line utilitarian masterpiece level.
Dangit, this thread is going to cost me $$ at the next gun show, or on the EE... Been wanting a featherweight to work up into a "trench" gun config for a while.
Between bottom eject, and the ability to pump-fire, what's not to love? A true military issue '37 would be great, but used Featherweights tend to go for less than a couple hundred $$, even in really good condition.
Between bottom eject, and the ability to pump-fire, what's not to love? A true military issue '37 would be great, but used Featherweights tend to go for less than a couple hundred $$, even in really good condition.
mcpherson284
Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island
A WW2 Ithaca 37 trench shotgun is the rarest of all the trench models. Only 1420 Ithaca 37 trench guns were produced during WW2 making it the rarest, leaving the Remington Model 10 with wooden hand guard as the rarest of all.
