WW1 .455 S+W Hand Ejector Model

C

Cam_S

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Hello Guys,

I have posted this in here even though it is a hand gun because it has to do with Military history. If I am wrong, I am sorry.

Anyways, I looked at a .455 Smith and Wesson Hand Ejector 2nd model today. It comes complete with holster and Lanyard. The Dealer says that it belonged to a WW1 Officer. Inside the holster it is named to a Captian in the RCA. However I looked the Officer up on the CEF National Archives site and could not find him. Also I forgot to bring my Camera so I don't have any pictures.

The Holster itself looks to new and is still stiff and does not show alot of wear when I compare it to WW2 German Holsters. It is a light tan colour and matches WW1 holsters that I have seen on the net. However it does not have any markings. AS well the pistol has no Canadian or British Markings. The serial number is 5 digits and starts off with 566XX. It looks to me to be reblued however I know these revolvers were a high finish.

So what I would like to know is how can I confirm this story? As well, is there a particular part of this pistol that should not be blued that if it is, it is a dead give away for being reblued (ie P38 Locking block). Could some also post a pic of their S+W for comparison?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Cam
 
Cam_S said:
So what I would like to know is how can I confirm this story? As well, is there a particular part of this pistol that should not be blued that if it is, it is a dead give away for being reblued (ie P38 Locking block). Could some also post a pic of their S+W for comparison?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Cam
Click to expand...

Hi Cam.... :)

I do have some pics of a good example of a WW1 piece, but I really don't know a heck of a lot about these things. I'm sure there's a lot of other folks here who can chime in with better detail.

I have no idea how you're going to validate the provenance on that piece. Without papers, or direct documentation showing a family lineage, it's simply hearsay by the seller. If you can't find the officer's record and there's no other supporting information except a name inside a holster, I'd treat its value as simply a revolver, not something with a value added heritage.

Here's a few pics of a 1917 S&W .455 Hand Ejector that is part of ~Angel~'s WW1 collection. It's serial number is # 446xx and it's military marked on the butt, opposite where the serial number is stamped.

1917 S&W .455 Hand Ejector (Provenance - owned and carried during WW1 by a Canadian Officer from the Kingston area

(Click PIC to Enlarge)(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Hope this helps...

Regards,
Badger
 
Thanks Guys

Hello All,

Badgerdog- Thanks for posting the pics. I really think now that this is a reblue that I was looking at.

The officers full name on the Holster read- Capt G.H. Colclough RCA. It was ink stamped and witten in pencil. I looked in the CEF attestaion papers but could not find anything there.

The dealer was asking $550 for it. It has no C broad arrow markings or any other british markings. This could mean that it was private purchase. I know these were still used in WW2 but I didn't think Private purchase pistols were as common in WW2 as the were in WW1.

Thanks for any more help you can provide me with,
Cam
 
I agree with Badger about the named holster. It does not add value only interest, although in most cases I would suspect that the holsters stayed with their original pistols as these were officer's sidearms that were private purchase and were retained after the war and were not drawn from stores to be returned later as were handguns issued to NCO's and Machine Gunners
 
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Serial numbers run into the 72,### range for the .455 second model hand ejectors.

S&W .455s were accounted as a separate model & have their own serial ranges. This includes (most) triple locks~some early ones were originally .44specials which were converted to .455 (these are numbered in the standard c.1914ish triple lock serials).

In my experiance holsters can often be found in "as new" condition. I've mostly assumed that they were the "parade kit".

If you can't find any military markings, look on the base of the butt in front of the swivel. There will probably be a small "bug" (crowned proof). Not all of them received other military markings (some didn't even receive this one).

In my experiance it's easier to find a Colt without any military markings than a S&W.

I see that GrantR needs a pic of a Boer War era Colt New Service for his page. The one he has up is WWI era.

Regards
D
 
S&W Hand Ejector

Great pieces! Here is mine. It is not in the best shape, but I like the markings. You'll notice the Dominion of Canada Proofmarks on the face of the cylinder and 2 C broad arrows on the frame. It is also a low serial number for a second model 262X in crane and on butt. Does not matter...but the holster is dated 1918.

Mario

IMG_0156.jpg

IMG_0157.jpg

IMG_0159.jpg
 
Blued Bore

Hello Guys,

I can't thank you guys enough for the pictures and help that you have provided.

I think I may have come up with an idea on how to tell if the blueing is original or not.

The Bore, all the way down the barrell is blued. It is not a dark, poor bore. It has mint rifling but it is blued. Is this just a mint gun or does it mean that it is reblued?

Thanks again for the help.

Cam
 
Cam_S said:
Hello All,

Badgerdog- Thanks for posting the pics. I really think now that this is a reblue that I was looking at.

The officers full name on the Holster read- Capt G.H. Colclough RCA. It was ink stamped and witten in pencil. I looked in the CEF attestaion papers but could not find anything there.

The dealer was asking $550 for it. It has no C broad arrow markings or any other british markings. This could mean that it was private purchase. I know these were still used in WW2 but I didn't think Private purchase pistols were as common in WW2 as the were in WW1.

Thanks for any more help you can provide me with,
Cam
Click to expand...

Yep cant find CEF guys with those initials........The Fact that RCA is written behind the name suggests post WW1 or even ww2 use.The artillery in WW1 was designated CFA,CGA and RCA is a later designation.....could be a father/Son piece and I,ll bet one of those 14 Cef attestations got a field commission and may be a father/relative of your man.

LASTMAG
 
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Cam_S said:
Hello Guys,

I can't thank you guys enough for the pictures and help that you have provided.

I think I may have come up with an idea on how to tell if the blueing is original or not.

The Bore, all the way down the barrell is blued. It is not a dark, poor bore. It has mint rifling but it is blued. Is this just a mint gun or does it mean that it is reblued?

Thanks again for the help.

Cam
Click to expand...

I'm afraid that that is not going to tell you anything. They were blued down the barrel (& cylinder) as well.

Look under the extractor star, and report what you see.

The original bluing was quite dark (almost black) and "metallic/irridecent" almost like a black chrome? To me the bluing appears deep, like you can see for 1/8"+... Often it appears to have "flaked" off, sometimes in patches.
 
I have a printout of Attestation paper for the Officer that owned one of my WWI leather holsters. His serial # and name were engraved on the flap.
Also there was a very large holster design for just the S&W .455 . I consider it the largest pistol holster of the war. Mine measures in at 14 inches length with a C broadarrow and dated 12 14. Also has S&R Borbridge Makers Ottawa. This holster is light tan in colour. Unlike the dozens of other leather pieces of that era I have which are a dark brown patina.
Due to the private purchases of the time across Britain and Canada there will usually be slight or great variations of different manufactered holsters, based on the same design for the same make and model pistol.
S&W MP,Colt 1917, Webley, perhaps one holster design was for all these revolvers.
Then there's the automatics and Other Ranks holsters, but that's for another time.
 
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