WW1 Canadian Sniper - What rifle?

RMXC51

RMXC51

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My great grandfather served as a sniper in the 46 battalion, BEF. Enlisted November 1915. Would he have used a scoped Ross, or an Enfield as a primary weapon? Nobody in the family knows, they just know he was a crack shot right up until he went to the old folks home.

Also, I have a copy of his battlefield will, which shows him attached to the 10th brigade machine gun company. Would snipers be attached to such a unit, or would he have been serving in a different role then (July 1916)?

Thanks for the help in adavnce I hope!
 
RMXC51 said:
My great grandfather served as a sniper in the 46 battalion, BEF. Enlisted November 1915. Would he have used a scoped Ross, or an Enfield as a primary weapon? Nobody in the family knows, they just know he was a crack shot right up until he went to the old folks home.

Also, I have a copy of his battlefield will, which shows him attached to the 10th brigade machine gun company. Would snipers be attached to such a unit, or would he have been serving in a different role then (July 1916)?

Thanks for the help in adavnce I hope!
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Did you ever try and research your Grandad's service records from our favorite folks at library and archives Canada? I got my Dad's, and my Granddad's service records no problem, But sometimes you might find something you didn't expect of your forebearers?? Second question is, did you ever go out shooting with him?
 
From what I understand, most Canadian snipers would have been issued the Ross Mk. III with the Warner and Swasey scope with the rubber eyecup. Apparently, famed American-born, Canadian sniper Herbert McBride was quoted as saying that combination would "make a flincher out of a cigar store Indian." The other popular commonwealth setup was an SMLE with a Winchester A5 scope But pretty much anything and everything was pressed into service. According to the book "Out of Nowhere" a couple of enthusiastic British chaps did some countersniping with a .416 Rigby with some pretty slapstick results.
 
I can't say with absolute certainty (this is just what I've heard) The snipers apparently often used the Ross rather than the Enfield. According to the person who told me that it was due to accuracy and with the snipers extreme discipline for cleaning their rifles, the jamming problems weren't an issue for them...

Like I said, thats just what I heard, as far as I know that could be absolute BS.
 
Leigh said:
I can't say with absolute certainty (this is just what I've heard) The snipers apparently often used the Ross rather than the Enfield. According to the person who told me that it was due to accuracy and with the snipers extreme discipline for cleaning their rifles, the jamming problems weren't an issue for them...

Like I said, thats just what I heard, as far as I know that could be absolute BS.
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That is pretty much what Major John Plaster says in his book History of Sniping and Sharpshooting.
I reviewed the book for the CSSA magazine last year. This is what I wrote about that part:

In Part 4, The Two World Wars, there is approximately 11 pages on Canadian snipers in WW1 alone. The Canadian built Ross rifle is also mentioned. The Ross was a fine target rifle, but a terrible trench warfare gun. It is well known that it was taken out of service, and replaced with the Lee-Enfield. What I did not know was that the Ross stayed in service with the highly trained snipers, as they knew how to care for their rifles
 
I had heard that snipers used the Ross as well, as the better care and lower number of shots taken made them okay for sniping, but I wasn't sure.

I have fond memories of him as a boy, but he died when I was about 8. Never went shooting with him. I have his complete service records. He didn't talk much about the war, and we never knew until we got the records out of archives that he was shot in the leg! It is mentioned casually in a statemnt about removing his appendix and treating him for ear infection (which I suppose you get a lot lying in cold mud for hours and days).

I asked an uncle who grew up with him if he ever went hunting with him. He told me that for a couplf really lean years in the 1930s, everyobdy in the area gave grandpa their deer tags, then they all pushed bush as a group while he did the shooting. Said hunting season one year lasted about 45 minutes! He also remembers that grandpa liked shooting crows, and would be pissed if he got them any other way than through the eye.
 
Have a book around here someplace about W.W. I sniping. "Sniping in France", I think. Indicates that there was no official rifle during W.W. I. Early snipers(Brits) used donated or personal hunting rifles. Ross rifles were used, as well, though.
 
My understanding it that the Canadian snipers used mostly the Ross, the snipers could be a little more particular as to what ammo they were feeding their rifles. The main issue with the Ross was it was manufactured to tighter tollerences and when you got a batch of ammo that was a little too near max spec and added mud then there were big problems.

British snipers used more Patt'14 (winchester) and Enfields set up for their snipers, lots of different scope variations.
 
Consider the fact that machine gunners would be a prime target for snipers. Some counter sniper protection would have been welcome.

As for that .416 Rigby being used as a sniper rifle, German snipers would often use armoured plates to shoot through. A .303 would just bounce off, BUT that .416 would make a nice hole through the plate and the german behind it.
 
Ross was the sniper...not the every day gun

Though some of the first canadians into the conflict were issued Ross rifles, they rarely kept them, replacing them for the enfield, whenever they could.

The Ross, however, was the choice of the Canadian snipers. It was a finely accurate rifle, but lacked the robustness required for "everyday" use.

The decision to equip the canadians with the Ross was the decision of the canadian defense minister and was made for personnal reasons as well (He was friends with those supplying the rifles, and undoubtedly gained financially as well!) He is also the same minister who would routinely play "dress up", in a military uniform, started CFB Valcartier as a training base and issued canadians with the entrenching spade with the hole in it. He believed they could also use it as a sheild, and observe the enemy through the hole!! This were immediately ditched when the soldiers arrived in England.

The canadian political history of the late 1890's and eaily 20th century is VERY interesting!


RMXC51 said:
My great grandfather served as a sniper in the 46 battalion, BEF. Enlisted November 1915. Would he have used a scoped Ross, or an Enfield as a primary weapon? Nobody in the family knows, they just know he was a crack shot right up until he went to the old folks home.

Also, I have a copy of his battlefield will, which shows him attached to the 10th brigade machine gun company. Would snipers be attached to such a unit, or would he have been serving in a different role then (July 1916)?

Thanks for the help in adavnce I hope!
Click to expand...
 
"...machine gun companies..." MG's were considered to be arty in W.W. I. Not likely to have snipers. PBI units attached probably would have, but not at the beginning.
"...the Canadian Defense Minister..." Sam Hughes. Nuttier and more corrupt than Chretien. Charles Ross was one of his buddies.
"...started CFB Valcartier..." Yep. After throwing out professionally done mobilization plans. Chaos followed the twit everywhere he went and in everything he did.
"...routinely play "dress up", in a military uniform..." So did Churchill.
 
sunray said:
"...machine gun companies..." MG's were considered to be arty in W.W. I. Not likely to have snipers. PBI units attached probably would have, but not at the beginning.
"...the Canadian Defense Minister..." Sam Hughes. Nuttier and more corrupt than Chretien. Charles Ross was one of his buddies.
"...started CFB Valcartier..." Yep. After throwing out professionally done mobilization plans. Chaos followed the twit everywhere he went and in everything he did.
"...routinely play "dress up", in a military uniform..." So did Churchill.
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Hughes did everything he could to stop the Ross rifle from being tossed out in favour of the reliable SMLE ,..the troopies in the trenches knew what rifle would do the job
 
RMXC51 said:
Anybody have any ideas about snipers being attached to machine gun companies?
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Russian sniper Vasily Zaitsev would hang out near Russian MG emplacements and when the crew would light up an area, he would use the noise to mask his own fire. However, attaching sharpshooters to machine gunners wouldn't have been a bad idea, but their value wasn't fully appreciated back then.

The .416 Rigby rifles were used to defeat the boiler plate. But the incident I alluded to was two newbie snipers were trying to figure out the telescopic sight they had fitted to a .416 without much success. A more knowledgeable chap came along and found the rifle was shooting way high and to the right. The story has their reaction as something along the lines of "Oh, well that explains why we had a bead on one Hun sniper, and when we fired, another Hun sniper that we didn't see fell out of that tree. f:P: Talk about a comedy of errors.
 
I saw a picture of a bunch of Canadian snipers armed with 1910 Ross rifles, but the interesting thing in the picture was that the wood foreward of the front sling swivel had been removed.
 
too big to display according to CGN rules, but very nice....

w ww.warmuseum.ca/cwm/exhibitions/guerre/photos/2800/19640009-004.jpg
 
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