WW1 + WW2 Allied Collection
- Thread starter Custom2M4
- Start date
The 1918 .455 webley auto colt was ordered with approx 20,000 others like it directly from colt in 1918/1919. Ordered specifically for the RAF (royal air force), in a unique ammo in order to maintain supplies specifically for the british air force in WW1. It was then stamped again after being re issued for WW2. It's a pretty rare piece, and the condition is better than my brand new norinco out of the box.
I'll take a few high res pictures next time the safes open.
Thanks for the comments guys.
I'll take a few high res pictures next time the safes open.
Thanks for the comments guys.
Thanks for your reply. Looking forward to better photos!
I'm not sure what you mean by 'stamped again after being issued for WWII'. I've never seen such stamps?
The British are big on refinishing guns and I know Enfield did a lot of work on these pistols. I don't know a way of dating that work though and they were in service quite a while.
Regards,
-Steve
Phat Eagle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley, BC
Beautiful collection! I've only ever seen one .455 1911 in person, and yours is in waaaay better shape. That's a true gem!
The RAF stamp or engraving was given for the ones re issued for ww2. There's another engraving on the left side of the gun for the ones issued in ww1. I can't remember off the top of my head but I believe it was an engraved arrow. This particular gun was passed down from a Canadian pilot who was stationed in Europe in ww2 and brought back with him, and has made it into my collection.
In my readings, the enfield refinished models have an engraved "E" as well stamped on the frame. I have not seen this mark.
There aren't too many that weren't converted to .45 back in the day, I also have the proper mag for it, unforunetely the serial doesn't match. The mag serial looks like it was hand engraved, not done by a machine.
Another neat fact about it is the serial # being that it's one of the first ; 6 hundred made in the series. Crazy that it's almost 100 years old.
Last edited:
Hi,
Sorry for the delay in this reply, I've been too busy to sit at my computer the past few days. I see you have now listed the pistol on the EE. I think you need to double-check your resources, as there's many errors in your information.
Your pistol was part of Contract No. U.S. 6755-MM264, placed May 7, 1918. This contract was for 10,000 additional RAF pistols at the rate of 600 per month, with 30,000 extra magazines.
Your pistol number W106261 was shipped Mar. 20, 1919 several months after WWI ended. It was near the end of the contract and thousands of pistols are in the 'series' prior to it.
It has the following standard markings from that shipment:
RAF: Hand stamped by armorers, signifying Royal Air Force. Pistols serialed above W100000 without the RAF mark may have been sold to individual officers or issued to other military organizations.
Broad arrow: The standard British government property mark.
Crossed pennant: British military proof mark stamped at Colt.
G2A Inspector mark: Inspected and proofed at Colt by British inspector G.W.R. Stedman.
The pistol also has the following non-standard markings applied since leaving the factory:
Magazine serial number: 1911 magazines were never factory numbered to the guns. Whatever serial number is on the magazine was applied by someone after it left the factory. It could be an old RAF rack number, some units liked to apply such things and I have seen them before. Not too often found on magazines. I wouldn't be surprised if the magazine also had a broad arrow applied.
British commercial proofs on the barrel: From your EE ad, the barrel on your pistols shows British commercial proofs that began being applied in 1955. As such, the pistol did not leave the U.K. prior to 1955.
**Besides the obvious post-1955 export proofs, it would be highly unlikely that a Canadian pilot would have carried a pistol chambered in .455 auto during WWII. That ammunition would have been extremely difficult to find. A few Canadian pilots are known to have carried 1911's chambered in the more common .45 acp during that time.
The finish on your gun is not original and while it's hard to say from the photos, it's probably an arsenal re-finish. Many of the RAF pistols sold as surplus and brought to Canada at the same time as yours had that finish. It appears however that this pistol did not receive the Enfield inspectors mark at time of refinish - I have observed others like it. It is also possible it was parkerized commercially by a previous owner.
While your pistol is not what you describe, it's still an interesting gun from the inter-war period that served with RAF during that time.
For additional research, the best book for British 1911's is Charles Clawson's 'Colt .45 Service Pistols' also know by collectors as the 'big book'. This is an expensive book and sadly out of print, but nobody else has accurately covered the British contract 1911's to same degree of detail.
Regards,
-Steve
For comparison, here's a true original example of a British military 1911 in .455 shipped Aug. 2, 1918 prior to wars end. This pistol is an authentic 'bringback' by a WWI Canadian soldier and you can compare the bluing for yourself. You may also notice the British property/inspector marks were applied after the pistol was blued. There are also no commercial export marks.
Regards,
-Steve
Regards,
-Steve
Steve,
Thanks for the info, without the books you mentioned, information on the raf pistols is slim to find. I found the may 7th date! And figured that was the shipping date as well. The pistol was not his "carry" arm, he had a browning hi power, which is also still in the family.
I did end up finding an "E" on the frame of the pistol, I keep hearing enfield marked the guns with that engraving. When was this done, possibly during the British ownership or post war for commercial re-sale? The gentleman in question procured quite a few guns during his tours during and post war. Going by war stories generations back is sometimes hard.
Does your book have any more info on enfield and what / when they had these guns?
Thanks for the info, without the books you mentioned, information on the raf pistols is slim to find. I found the may 7th date! And figured that was the shipping date as well. The pistol was not his "carry" arm, he had a browning hi power, which is also still in the family.
I did end up finding an "E" on the frame of the pistol, I keep hearing enfield marked the guns with that engraving. When was this done, possibly during the British ownership or post war for commercial re-sale? The gentleman in question procured quite a few guns during his tours during and post war. Going by war stories generations back is sometimes hard.
Does your book have any more info on enfield and what / when they had these guns?
For Colt 1911 variations don't forget the,
11.25 m/m AUT. PISTOL M/1914, Kongsberg Colten.
Made at Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk in Norway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongsberg_Colt
11.25 m/m AUT. PISTOL M/1914, Kongsberg Colten.
Made at Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk in Norway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongsberg_Colt
