I want to get a WW2 era bolt action sniper rifle. I was thinking about a Mosin Nagant, but I really don't know what is out there. I want to keep it inexpensive, and I would like to keep ammo costs cheap too. The nagant uses 7.62 x 54 I believe, and that is cheap surplus stuff. I like that. I want bolt action of course, and want something simple and easy to maintain and clean. What else could you guys recommend? I'll probably be limited to about 300 yards at the range I go to.
WW2 sniper rifle- which one should I buy?
- Thread starter speedf8
- Start date
- Location
- Montréal, Québec
I'd recommend the Japanese Type 97, if you can find it 
The Springfield M1903 and Mauser 98K are great options. The Mosin Nagant seems to readily availible as is the Lee Enfield No. 4s.
The Springfield M1903 and Mauser 98K are great options. The Mosin Nagant seems to readily availible as is the Lee Enfield No. 4s.
The sniping versions of these rifles aren't what I'd call in-expensive. You need to do a tonne of research and then go to a shop or ten and handle the rifles.
You're going to find that milsurp and milsurp sniper are an addiction unto themselves. It can get very expensive when you start wanting to have EVERY version of a particular specimin.
This would have been better posted in the Milsurp section.
You're going to find that milsurp and milsurp sniper are an addiction unto themselves. It can get very expensive when you start wanting to have EVERY version of a particular specimin.
This would have been better posted in the Milsurp section.
A few things to think about regarding WWII era sniper rifles.
1. True originals will be rare and very expensive.
2. There are fakes out there and you need to know how to spot them.
3. You can purchase parts for certain models but you may face some challenges when it comes to making them appear historically accurate.
4. The Milsurp section of this forum is where you're going to find most of the information pertaining to this type of rifle. You'll notice that there aren't a lot of topics about WWII sniper rifles because there are so few of them actually in Canada.
5. If you are looking to turn a standard WWII era rifle into a "sniper" model you should know that altering a historical firearm by drilling and tapping for a scope mount will generally be frowned upon by most people in the Milsurp area so don't expect a whole lot of support for that type of project.
My advice: Save up your money, do extensive research on the subject of WWII sniper rifles and attend as many of the local gun shows as you can. You never know when an original rifle might end up on the table at a show; just be prepared to shell out a whole bunch of cash to get one.
In the meantime, get yourself a nice modern bolt action rifle and put a nice scope on it. If you want accuracy out to 300 yards you're going to need to reload, not use military surplus ammo.
1. True originals will be rare and very expensive.
2. There are fakes out there and you need to know how to spot them.
3. You can purchase parts for certain models but you may face some challenges when it comes to making them appear historically accurate.
4. The Milsurp section of this forum is where you're going to find most of the information pertaining to this type of rifle. You'll notice that there aren't a lot of topics about WWII sniper rifles because there are so few of them actually in Canada.
5. If you are looking to turn a standard WWII era rifle into a "sniper" model you should know that altering a historical firearm by drilling and tapping for a scope mount will generally be frowned upon by most people in the Milsurp area so don't expect a whole lot of support for that type of project.
My advice: Save up your money, do extensive research on the subject of WWII sniper rifles and attend as many of the local gun shows as you can. You never know when an original rifle might end up on the table at a show; just be prepared to shell out a whole bunch of cash to get one.
In the meantime, get yourself a nice modern bolt action rifle and put a nice scope on it. If you want accuracy out to 300 yards you're going to need to reload, not use military surplus ammo.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
If it was me, I would choose a M-17 Enfield in .30/06. These rifles are usually inexpensive to purchase, and very accurate on the rifle range. They can be mocked up to look like Second World War issue without too much trouble, but if you want an authentic '03 Springfield Sniper, a #4T Lee Enfield, a sniper variation of a K-98K, or for that matter a Mosin-Nagant 1891 30 Sniper, any one of those will cost you as much or more than a tweaked out modern target rifle. Personally, I would pass on any rifle with a split bridge action.
I might just have to settle on a WW2 era bolt-action rifle, and forget about the "sniper" bit. What should I look at? I am really not too worried about it being 100% authentic either. Just liking the look and heavy-duty build of the bolt action. What do you guys think?
Enfields, Mausers and Nagants are still fairly common, though they were cheaper and a bit easier to find a few years ago. If you haven't already, apply for access to the Equipment Exchange and have a look around, that's probably where you'll find what you're looking for.
Good luck and remember to post pictures when you get that old milsurp that you're after!
Good luck and remember to post pictures when you get that old milsurp that you're after!
Let's start with what's avaialble on the market right now:
Mosin Nagant m91 (m38, m44, type 53, etc etc etc etc)
The Good - cheap ammo available, can be taken apart and cleaned without special tools, sights are decent, cheap to buy and easy to find, can be accurate shooters. Come in different lengths. Special magazine feature stops rimmed cartridges from jamming against each other.
The Bad - the ammo is corrosive so you'll have to clean it religously. Some of the triggers are good some of them are terrible. Built by every com bloc country ever and quality is different for most of them. Bolt is hard to work compared to others, may have issues with laquered ammo (bring a 2x4). I find the stock isn't very ergonomic - may be different for you.
Overall - if you can find a nice clean specimen and you're willing to do a bit of tuning and cleaning after you shoot it you'll have a damn fine rifle for a low price that you can afford to shoot without reloading.
Lee Enfield No4mk1 or No1mk3
The Good - Firepower! A 10 round magazine with a slick bolt means lots of lead down range in a short amount of time Excellent sights on #4. Decent trigger. Great historical significance to Canada. Available for a decent price. Easy to find parts - sporter parts guns can be had for cheap with all the spares you need. Ergonomics are good. Build quality is generally good.
The Bad - You can go through ammo very quickly with this rifle if you get excited *L* If you want to shoot for cheap you have to reload (not really that much of a problem). Bedding can be an issue and it's hard to fix properly. Rifle naming convention can be damn confusing (No4mk1 - mk1* - mk1/2 - mk1/3 etc etc). Rimmed cartridges have to be loaded right or you risk a jam.
Overall - The Lee Enfield has a cult following and it's deserved. They're great rifles that shoot a good cartridge, are comfortable, don't hurt very much when you shoot them unless it's a No5mk1, and have excellent sights.
Mauser KAR98k or other Mausers
The Good - Nice handling rifle, no mag or snagging bits sticking out. Stripper clips work very well due to the rimless cartridge. The 8x57 cartridge combined with the strong action is a potent combination. Ergonomics are good. Bedding is easy to fix if you're into that, can be really accurate. Mausers come in all shapes and forms, small ring, large ring, #### on open, #### on close, all sorts of chamberings and barrel length, actions can be blued and some south american rifles are left in the white (beautiful). You can be pretty sure that a Russian refurb KAR98k has seen some action somewhere, not sure if that should be in the good or bad section
The Bad - People complain about the sights on this rifle and they are a bit weird - you can get used to them though and not all mausers have this problem. Triggers can often use some work. The rifle can be punishing to shoot if it's a heavy cartridge. Almost all mauser floor plates are a pain to remove so if you need to unload then you have to cycle the action to get them out (not a huge deal IMHO). Parts matching, German made Mausers are beautiful but are expensive - the Russian refurb ones are cheap but often look like crap (can be cleaned up though) and are forced matched. Late war KAR98k's can be really rough.
Overall - a strong choice depending on what mauser you end up with. The standard mauser is chambered in a great cartridge (actually all mausers are chambered in great cartridges). They're easy to operate, easy to handle, and they're tough. Can be really good shooters without much effort. You just have to watch out and make sure you're getting a good one, if it's German or a South American rifle made in Germany then you're pretty safe.
Mosin Nagant m91 (m38, m44, type 53, etc etc etc etc)
The Good - cheap ammo available, can be taken apart and cleaned without special tools, sights are decent, cheap to buy and easy to find, can be accurate shooters. Come in different lengths. Special magazine feature stops rimmed cartridges from jamming against each other.
The Bad - the ammo is corrosive so you'll have to clean it religously. Some of the triggers are good some of them are terrible. Built by every com bloc country ever and quality is different for most of them. Bolt is hard to work compared to others, may have issues with laquered ammo (bring a 2x4). I find the stock isn't very ergonomic - may be different for you.
Overall - if you can find a nice clean specimen and you're willing to do a bit of tuning and cleaning after you shoot it you'll have a damn fine rifle for a low price that you can afford to shoot without reloading.
Lee Enfield No4mk1 or No1mk3
The Good - Firepower! A 10 round magazine with a slick bolt means lots of lead down range in a short amount of time
Excellent sights on #4. Decent trigger. Great historical significance to Canada. Available for a decent price. Easy to find parts - sporter parts guns can be had for cheap with all the spares you need. Ergonomics are good. Build quality is generally good.The Bad - You can go through ammo very quickly with this rifle if you get excited *L* If you want to shoot for cheap you have to reload (not really that much of a problem). Bedding can be an issue and it's hard to fix properly. Rifle naming convention can be damn confusing (No4mk1 - mk1* - mk1/2 - mk1/3 etc etc). Rimmed cartridges have to be loaded right or you risk a jam.
Overall - The Lee Enfield has a cult following and it's deserved. They're great rifles that shoot a good cartridge, are comfortable, don't hurt very much when you shoot them unless it's a No5mk1, and have excellent sights.
Mauser KAR98k or other Mausers
The Good - Nice handling rifle, no mag or snagging bits sticking out. Stripper clips work very well due to the rimless cartridge. The 8x57 cartridge combined with the strong action is a potent combination. Ergonomics are good. Bedding is easy to fix if you're into that, can be really accurate. Mausers come in all shapes and forms, small ring, large ring, #### on open, #### on close, all sorts of chamberings and barrel length, actions can be blued and some south american rifles are left in the white (beautiful). You can be pretty sure that a Russian refurb KAR98k has seen some action somewhere, not sure if that should be in the good or bad section
The Bad - People complain about the sights on this rifle and they are a bit weird - you can get used to them though and not all mausers have this problem. Triggers can often use some work. The rifle can be punishing to shoot if it's a heavy cartridge. Almost all mauser floor plates are a pain to remove so if you need to unload then you have to cycle the action to get them out (not a huge deal IMHO). Parts matching, German made Mausers are beautiful but are expensive - the Russian refurb ones are cheap but often look like crap (can be cleaned up though) and are forced matched. Late war KAR98k's can be really rough.
Overall - a strong choice depending on what mauser you end up with. The standard mauser is chambered in a great cartridge (actually all mausers are chambered in great cartridges). They're easy to operate, easy to handle, and they're tough. Can be really good shooters without much effort. You just have to watch out and make sure you're getting a good one, if it's German or a South American rifle made in Germany then you're pretty safe.
TUDENOM- hey, thanks! That is some comprehensive advice. I'd love to find a good Mosin so that I don't have to worry about expensive ammo. I have a Russian SKS, so I know about the corrosive ammo. Kind of a PITA but I figure that a bolt action will make for easier cleaning than the SKS- a lot fewer nooks and crannies. I'll have to check out the SFRC sale. Does anyone own any of these guns mentioned on here?
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
Ok,
Last time I checked (been out of the country for a bit) here's a quick blast of a few options and prices:
Moisin Nagant Sniper $1200-ish
Sprinfield 03A6 $3-5,000-ish
M1C/D Garand $3-5,000-ish
Lee Enfield #4 Mk 1(T) $4-6,000-ish
Those are the "simple" options that occasionally appear in the EE here on CGN. I haven't been trolling CGN much since I deployed, but these seemed to be the going rates. ish.
If you want to get into the "Clone" market, you can cut the price in half or so generally, but you have a collection of parts, rather than a sniper's rifle. If you want a bunch of parts, OK, so be it. If you want a Military sniper's rifle, well, buyer beware.
I don't know what the going rate on some of the other rifles may be (ie Japanese, German, etc) but bring deep pockets.
I paid $4200 for my matching #4(T), with a re-painted transit chest, and have since added the sniper's telescope for another $300 or so...if you start adding the "bits" in, you start adding $$$ in too.
If you've got the money, go for it. But before you drop a load of coin on a rifle, do a little bit of research. I've got about 6 inches of books on my shelves at home dedicated to Sniper's Rifles, and that's only scratching the surface.
Good luck.
NS
Last time I checked (been out of the country for a bit) here's a quick blast of a few options and prices:
Moisin Nagant Sniper $1200-ish
Sprinfield 03A6 $3-5,000-ish
M1C/D Garand $3-5,000-ish
Lee Enfield #4 Mk 1(T) $4-6,000-ish
Those are the "simple" options that occasionally appear in the EE here on CGN. I haven't been trolling CGN much since I deployed, but these seemed to be the going rates. ish.
If you want to get into the "Clone" market, you can cut the price in half or so generally, but you have a collection of parts, rather than a sniper's rifle. If you want a bunch of parts, OK, so be it. If you want a Military sniper's rifle, well, buyer beware.
I don't know what the going rate on some of the other rifles may be (ie Japanese, German, etc) but bring deep pockets.
I paid $4200 for my matching #4(T), with a re-painted transit chest, and have since added the sniper's telescope for another $300 or so...if you start adding the "bits" in, you start adding $$$ in too.
If you've got the money, go for it. But before you drop a load of coin on a rifle, do a little bit of research. I've got about 6 inches of books on my shelves at home dedicated to Sniper's Rifles, and that's only scratching the surface.
Good luck.
NS
Wow, I didn't know they could get that high up in price. I'm looking at some old military surplus type stuff. I was looking at the sale at SFRC and they are selling Nagants for $120. What are these all about?
http://www.theammosource.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=690
http://www.theammosource.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=690
I reload .303 Brit (Enfields) and 8mm Mauser (K98k) so my costs are lower than factory.
Factory .303 Brit and 8mm Mauser will be in the $26 - $30 range per 20 rounds. I reload for about .50 - .60 cents a piece.
__________________
Prices I paid for the rifles are not going to represent current market value, but...
1943 Long Branch No.4 Mk1* Not sporterized - $175.00 - 8 years ago. (Purchased from local gun shop.)
1944 Long Branch No.4 Mk1* Not sporterized - $150.00 - 5 years ago. (Purchased from widow of veteran that it was issued to, she wanted me to take it for free and I refused. Rifle has Parker Hale Micrometer sight on it but was missing the bolt.)
1943 German Mauser K98k Not sporterized - $450.00 - 7 years ago. (Purchased from local shop. Is one of the "Mystery Mausers" that were Russian captured but never re-marked.)
Prices now could easily be double what I paid for them.
In the clone market, AIA produces a new production rifle based on the Lee Enfield No 4 Mk I design.
All the reviews I've read say its a great rifle. You can find them on Marstar's website. Saw one in person at my range and it had a very handsome finish to it. The owner said he was more then happy with its accuracy but I did not stay to watch it being fired.
All the reviews I've read say its a great rifle. You can find them on Marstar's website. Saw one in person at my range and it had a very handsome finish to it. The owner said he was more then happy with its accuracy but I did not stay to watch it being fired.
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
You specified "Snipers" rifle.
If you just want the non-snipers variants, they're much cheaper.
NS
If you just want the non-snipers variants, they're much cheaper.
NS
After seeing the prices on the "sniper" variants, I think I'll stick to the non-sniper ones. That SFRC deal sounds pretty good for $120. How tough would it be to find a bent-bolt for that gun and then to throw a scope on it? What differences are there between the sniper mosin and a regular? Longer barrel?
"...Springfield 03A6..." That'd be a 1903A4. $3-5,000-ish, Stateside, complete and in VG or better condition. Two to 3 grand here. Many fakes.
M1 D's and C's have the scope mounted on the left side of the receiver. Right hand shooting only. I should have bought one when they were $250ish, here. Even though I shoot left. sniff.
"...veteran that it was issued to..." Buy the rifle, not the story. The troopies were not allowed to keep their issue firearms. Ever.
"...didn't know they could get that high..." Few and far between with a considerable demand. Even Mosin-Nagant sniper versions have gone way up in price. Remember that original scopes are not like the scopes made today. Nor are they high magnification, usually 2.5X. And they can cost a big pile of money.
"...find a bent-bolt..." You can't just put in another bolt in any rifle. Has to be fitted for headspace. Drilling and tapping any milsurp that hasn't been bubba'd is frowned upon.
M1 D's and C's have the scope mounted on the left side of the receiver. Right hand shooting only. I should have bought one when they were $250ish, here. Even though I shoot left. sniff.
"...veteran that it was issued to..." Buy the rifle, not the story. The troopies were not allowed to keep their issue firearms. Ever.
"...didn't know they could get that high..." Few and far between with a considerable demand. Even Mosin-Nagant sniper versions have gone way up in price. Remember that original scopes are not like the scopes made today. Nor are they high magnification, usually 2.5X. And they can cost a big pile of money.
"...find a bent-bolt..." You can't just put in another bolt in any rifle. Has to be fitted for headspace. Drilling and tapping any milsurp that hasn't been bubba'd is frowned upon.
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
For the Cheapest Cheap Thrill of a Lifetime, go for a Cooey .22 with a scope or an SKS with or without a scope.
