WWII Photos - Weapon ID?

Dakk

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Edit: It occurred to me after I posted this that it may be the wrong section. I was thinking that milsurp collectors might better knowledge of WWII weapons, which is why I posted here. But if that was improper, please excuse my newbie ignorance and feel free to move the thread. Thank you.


Hi all. I have some old family photos, and I was wondering if anyone here might be able to help ID some of the weapons in the images for me, or at least suggest some possibilites. I realize the weapons aren't very prominent in the pictures, but I'm hoping a few of you might have keen eyes.

First a bit of history of the photos, for anyone interested in reading it: My grandfather was in the Danish army when Denmark was first occupied by the German forces in 1940. He was later assigned to King Christian X's Royal Guard unit. In around 1943 he joined the Danish police force. If anyone is familiar with Denmark in WWII history, it was around this same time that the divide between German sympathizers and the Danish resistance was growing. My grandfather found the police force to be pretty divided along these lines, and he often stated that he people had to be very careful about what they said or did. Suspected sympathizers would sometimes be executed by the resistance, and suspected resistance members would often be turned over to the Gestapo. My grandfather was secretly opposed to the occupation and participated in helping some Jews to escape to Sweden. In 1944 the German occupying forces surrounded the Copenhagen police dept and after a 4 hr stand off and firefight, the police were ordered to stand down by the King. My grandfather and another officer managed to escape across the roof tops and had to go underground for the rest of the occupation. The captured police were intended to be secretly killed, drowned on a scuttled ship, but when that failed due to a disobedient ship captain, they were sent to Buchenwald concentration camp. In 1945, when the German forces were planning their withdrawl, the former Danish police living underground, and the Danish resistance, began planning the round up of any remaining German soldiers, sympathizers, and German military equipment. They had huge piles of captured weapons, though I don't have any pictures of those unfortunately. Much was destroyed. My grandfather kept a few things.

The pictures: I'll have to dig more out. So this is just a few to start with. There's one in particular I've been looking for that shows Danish resistance with I believed may be home made sten guns. The round up pictures are later in the round up, when it was no longer necessary for them to wear arm bands to identify themselves.

On Castle Guard Duty

Guarding King Christian X

Post Withdrawl Copenhagen Police Unit - notice the MG in front

Post Withdrawl Round Up 1

Post Withdrawl Round Up 2

Post Withdrawl Round Up 3


Any helpful info or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thank you.
 
Other people will know better than I, but just for fun I'm going to throw a couple out there and see how my milsurp identification skills are improving. Bare in mind that I don't have the knowledge on the history and details of who shot what; I'm just looking at the pics.

The first two pics the rifles look like Norwegian Krags.

I'm really not sure but in 'post withdrawl round up 1" the gents on the left look to be holding M1 carbines. Could it be? The next fellow in looks to be holding a SMLE, but it's tough to tell and I wouldn't have expected that either.
 
Many of the sub-machine guns are Swedish-made versions of the SUOMI M31, called Model 37/39.

The 'machine gun' in pic #3 is a Madsen VZ52/57 - the M1 carbines are M1 carbines.

Hope this helps.

tac in yUK
 
First pics the troopies are using Krags, likely the Danish 1889 type in 8x58R, which was the official rifle in Denmark at that time. The Danes never called it the 'Krag': to them it was the '89' ('ni og viers'), no matter what model WE might call it.

The MG in Pic 3 is a BREN.

SMLEs are SMLEs, M-1s are M-1s.

Photos look to have been taken immediately after the War, at a time when Denmark was using just about everything Allied in a mixture. Later, they standardised (more or less) on US types.

The sheer number of weapons air-dropped and landed into Denmark during the War must have been 'way up in the thousands. It wasn't just a lone Lizzie sneaking in with half a dozen Stens. (No, the Danes got prototype Stens and made their own in auto garages; I have seen a heap of them.) It was a Major OP. The Director of Parachute Operations for Silkeborg District, Hr. Henning Jensen, told me that sometimes they would use B-25s at low level, coming in quiet with the engines throttled back, dropping containers with chutes attached. Containers were the same size, fit the same bomb shackles, as a 750-pounder. They would be loaded with M-1s, Stens, ammo, Mills Bombs, some Number 4s and other fun toys. Nine-mil they could generally get from Fritz, even if the process could get ugly.

In late 1940, German soldiers would walk around Copenhagen singly and in twos, unarmed. Three years and a bit later they were fully armed, rounds up the pipe and NEVER in less than Squad strength. There were FIVE DIVISIONS in Denmark by war's end.... and they were ALL needed. They were ALSO needed elsewhere, so the Danish Underground can be credited with keeping 5 badly-needed German Divisions away from the "real" fighting: a very valuable contribution to the War Effort.

Denmark is a lovely place to visit. Just come with cash money and a smile..... and leave your 150,000 buddies with the MG-34s at home!

GREAT old photos. Thanks so much for posting them.

The one of the King is especially telling: a most respected Man..... by everyone, including his enemies.

That says a lot.
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Fantastic! Thank you so much everyone. Does anyone happen to know anything about the availability or cost of the 'Danish 1889 (Krag) type in 8x58R' these days?

Thanks for the great info smellie. The round up photos were indeed taken immediately after the war ended, I believe within the first two weeks.

I recall my gradfather telling me about King Christian X's morning rides through Copenhagen, and how everyone stopped to pay their repsects to the King as he passed by on horseback. He typically rode on his own through the streets, without guards. In the newspaper clipping image, my grandfather is the guard standing closest to the camera, as the King and his wife are going to see their new grand daughter, who had just been born.

The germans were indeed pretty busy toward the end. Many of the 'wanted' Danes started to return home in early 1945, knowing that the Germans were simply too preoccupied to hunt for them. Throughout the war, Denmark was a sort of R&R for many German soldiers, who were returning from one front, or soon to be sent to another. The Shell Oil company building in downtown Copenhagen was used as a Gestapo HQ, which the allies bombed. More info on that here.

My grandfather had some great stories of the Danish resistance from those years. I remember him telling me about one Dane, a gunsmith, who ran a shop in Copenhagen, and was often used by individual Germans soldiers when they wanted modifications to their weapons. Apparently it wasn't uncommon for men to give their commanding officer a pistol, typically a luger, which they often wanted engraved or specialized in some way. The Danish gunsmith apparently modified German weapons to seriously malfunction at times, in particular some of these pistols, since they weren't typically drawn and used until they encountered some close quarters fighting. Hopefully milsurp collectors are careful to consider such a (remote) possibility when they acquire an WWII weapon.

One day I'll have to get to sorting through more old photos and scanning more of them into digital images.

I have one more that I'll post for now that just sort of shows the difference in the German troops between the time they entered Denmark in 1940, and when they left in 1945. It's the back page of a neat old photograph filled newspaper that reviewed the entire occupation from beginning to end. As you can see they didn't leave Denmark with many weapons in hand.

50-0.jpg
 
The light machine gun in the third picture is an Mk I Bren gun with out a magazine.
The shape of the butt stock and the position of the caring handle, and the gas regulator, are the identifying features.
 
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