Your experience with BCL102 and Norc copper washed ammo?

-raqh-

-raqh-

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Hey guys,

Been thinkering and looking to get a semi in 308/7.62x51.

Now, I've had a couple m305s and wouldnt mind getting a shorty, but I'm also interested in those 102.

But the seeing that the 102 are picky, I dont wanna invest 1000$+ on something that won't spit right my stack of Norc ball ammo.

Lmk your experience with your 102 and Norc 147gr surplus.
 
From everything I read all the new norks have mim bolts and will break apart sooner then later. I’m also kinda looking into the 102 but there was a fella that had a kaboom a little while ago, not sure if I would gamble on getting a good 102
 
I ran a few hundred norinco green box through mine before the barrel swap. It all shot with out issue. Its not exactly the same as the surpluse but pretty close.
 
Stag 10 killed the bcl102. Bcl had a bunch of stuff wrong with them and i'm suprised retailers still buy them. I don't think I could sell one in good faith with the track record that company has. They never disclosed the receiver material (obviously 6061) then they never anodized it which surface hardens the metal so marring is to be expected. Instead of anodizing they went straight to ceracoat which didn't look right because they didn't finish their receivers very well so all the machining marks were visible through the coating. Mine had a bunch of over spray as well. There have been many reports of FTF/FTE problems.

The new kid on the block is going to be the troy 102 but again not very much information has been given out. I imagine its going to be a direct copy of the BCL but made by troy. However as the price point the stag still makes more sense. The stag uses DPMS parts and the BCL uses a mish mash of armalite/dpms/102. I'm sure someone can chime in here better but sourcing parts for the 102 pattern is going to be a bit more challenging if you plan to upgrade. so my suggestion would be to watch the EE for a gently used or NIB stag rifle.

Accuracy is hit and miss for every rifle. Guaranteeing a rifle will shoot Chinese surplus ammo well is a bet I wouldn't place. What kind of accuracy are you hoping to achieve? Every barrel is different. My stag 10 with a shilen match barrel hates 147gr ball ammo and by hates I mean 2.5" groups at 100m. So accuracy is a little subjective to what the expectations of the user will be.
 
With ball ammo, clay size accuracy is all I ask, mostly to cet used to the rifle and be able to afford shooting it To my liking. Later comes match grade and roll my own.

My question was more about ftf/fte with that kind of ammo. If it cant fonction right + iffy accuracy, that's just not happening.

My old m305 was giving me 1.5-2 inches at 100 yards with this stuff and I was satisfied with that.
 
winchester1852 said:
From everything I read all the new norks have mim bolts and will break apart sooner then later. I’m also kinda looking into the 102 but there was a fella that had a kaboom a little while ago, not sure if I would gamble on getting a good 102
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That was me. BCL gave me a BNIB 102 which I gave back to the retailer and $600 more and I have (will have when Arms East gets next shipment) a Stag 10. When a riffle KB in your hands due to manufactures design and lack of QC, hard to trust it again. Some people on here however have had zero problems. Comes down to if you’re feeling lucky
 
-raqh- said:
With ball ammo, clay size accuracy is all I ask, mostly to cet used to the rifle and be able to afford shooting it To my liking. Later comes match grade and roll my own.

My question was more about ftf/fte with that kind of ammo. If it cant fonction right + iffy accuracy, that's just not happening.

My old m305 was giving me 1.5-2 inches at 100 yards with this stuff and I was satisfied with that.
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Buying a 102 is similar to buying a m305, it's a lottery. Some m305's shoot fantastic groups, but other not so much. If you are already planning handloading in the future and maybe upgrading parts the stag 10 is hands down the better choice because of the receiver quality alone. Maple ridge armories uses IBI barrels which is a new canadian match grade barrel manufacturer, and they come up on the EE for very attractive prices but the factory barrels combined with handloads should have very good potential in themselves.

Again the FTE/FTF issues are random. For $1600 that's a pretty bad gamble as there have be quite a few reports on here.
 
-raqh- said:
My question was more about ftf/fte with that kind of ammo. If it cant fonction right + iffy accuracy, that's just not happening.
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You will be fine. My BCL Gen 2 runs the Norinco surplus ball just fine. It actually preforms better than the Hirtenberger.

Below was shot at 100 yards, Vortex Crossfire ll 1-4x. Ejection is at 3:00 and 3-4 feet away. No FTF or FTE.

uB9LbOb.jpg
 
Hutchy said:
Buying a 102 is similar to buying a m305, it's a lottery. Some m305's shoot fantastic groups, but other not so much. If you are already planning handloading in the future and maybe upgrading parts the stag 10 is hands down the better choice because of the receiver quality alone. Maple ridge armories uses IBI barrels which is a new canadian match grade barrel manufacturer, and they come up on the EE for very attractive prices but the factory barrels combined with handloads should have very good potential in themselves.

Again the FTE/FTF issues are random. For $1600 that's a pretty bad gamble as there have be quite a few reports on here.
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Not necessarily a fair comparison.

You're not playing the lottery with an M305. Inspect the bolt and receiver to make sure it's not MIM. Then fully expect it to have all the small foibles they have. You can fix and tweak all the issues with them for next to nothing. Indexing the barrel is the only tricky part and if you make a simple jig for the barrel, a solid vice and 1-5/8" wrench.....done.
The only part that's going to cost you money is a replacement M1A/USGI rear sight assy (90 to 100 bucks shipped max) Well it will also cost you a bit of time to do some simple research and do the work. You end up with a great rifle. There's guys dumping rifle that have already been tuned all over the EE for around $600 even.
The NEA102.....that's a lottery. And it costs a lot more to just play that lottery off the hop....and you can't fix the problems in your basement if you lose that lottery. So it's warranty, getting ####ed around by ####ty Canadian customer service etc....
You MAY get a good BCL102, you may not. For those that lose that dice toss, it never seems to go well.
I would go STAG 10 if I really wanted an NR AR10 but honestly I've heard mixed nonsense on these too.

Personally I won't be giving a dollar to any Canadian companies for any Canadian made firearms any time soon. Nothing but beta testing, half baked products, shady customer service and confusing warranty work. #### all of them. Sorry. The M305 isn't a dice toss. You already know you're going to get a rifle with minor flaws. But you can fix the flaws easily at home and get that thing firing lead quick time every time. It's an outdated platform. Not very modular (if that's your thing, it never was mine). It's "old" and it's not an AR type design so it's not popular anymore.
 
Travis Bickle said:
Not necessarily a fair comparison.

You're not playing the lottery with an M305. Inspect the bolt and receiver to make sure it's not MIM. Then fully expect it to have all the small foibles they have. You can fix and tweak all the issues with them for next to nothing. Indexing the barrel is the only tricky part and if you make a simple jig for the barrel, a solid vice and 1-5/8" wrench.....done.
The only part that's going to cost you money is a replacement M1A/USGI rear sight assy (90 to 100 bucks shipped max) Well it will also cost you a bit of time to do some simple research and do the work. You end up with a great rifle. There's guys dumping rifle that have already been tuned all over the EE for around $600 even.
The NEA102.....that's a lottery. And it costs a lot more to just play that lottery off the hop....and you can't fix the problems in your basement if you lose that lottery. So it's warranty, getting ####ed around by ####ty Canadian customer service etc....
You MAY get a good BCL102, you may not. For those that lose that dice toss, it never seems to go well.
I would go STAG 10 if I really wanted an NR AR10 but honestly I've heard mixed nonsense on these too.

Personally I won't be giving a dollar to any Canadian companies for any Canadian made firearms any time soon. Nothing but beta testing, half baked products, shady customer service and confusing warranty work. #### all of them. Sorry. The M305 isn't a dice toss. You already know you're going to get a rifle with minor flaws. But you can fix the flaws easily at home and get that thing firing lead quick time every time. It's an outdated platform. Not very modular (if that's your thing, it never was mine). It's "old" and it's not an AR type design so it's not popular anymore.
Click to expand...

Man with how much effort you put into putting down the BCL-102s you must be getting paid or something, at least I hope you are...
 
Travis Bickle said:
Not necessarily a fair comparison.

You're not playing the lottery with an M305. Inspect the bolt and receiver to make sure it's not MIM. Then fully expect it to have all the small foibles they have. You can fix and tweak all the issues with them for next to nothing. Indexing the barrel is the only tricky part and if you make a simple jig for the barrel, a solid vice and 1-5/8" wrench.....done.
The only part that's going to cost you money is a replacement M1A/USGI rear sight assy (90 to 100 bucks shipped max) Well it will also cost you a bit of time to do some simple research and do the work. You end up with a great rifle. There's guys dumping rifle that have already been tuned all over the EE for around $600 even.
The NEA102.....that's a lottery. And it costs a lot more to just play that lottery off the hop....and you can't fix the problems in your basement if you lose that lottery. So it's warranty, getting ####ed around by ####ty Canadian customer service etc....
You MAY get a good BCL102, you may not. For those that lose that dice toss, it never seems to go well.
I would go STAG 10 if I really wanted an NR AR10 but honestly I've heard mixed nonsense on these too.

Personally I won't be giving a dollar to any Canadian companies for any Canadian made firearms any time soon. Nothing but beta testing, half baked products, shady customer service and confusing warranty work. #### all of them. Sorry. The M305 isn't a dice toss. You already know you're going to get a rifle with minor flaws. But you can fix the flaws easily at home and get that thing firing lead quick time every time. It's an outdated platform. Not very modular (if that's your thing, it never was mine). It's "old" and it's not an AR type design so it's not popular anymore.
Click to expand...

Well said, and you're right the m305 is easy/fun project for the cost. I have about 900 into mine total and it hovers around 1" at 100. But there's not a lot you can do at home about the bcl.

You're right again about canadian companies. Why did NEA change their name to BCL to start selling this rifle? because they were know for poor quality. Even the Maccabee SLR got off to a rocky start cutting corners with not anodizing and poor QC. I've owner two kodiak defense rifles (WR762, and WK180) and I dont have any complaints so far on those two. I do really hope canadian companies get themselves together.

The problems I have read about with the stag are loose gas blocks from the factory and I think that was about it. All the people defending the BCL saying they've never had a problem... well that's great that yours works, but look at how many people are having problems with them. For the price that they are you shouldn't have to wonder if that $1600 rifle you just brought home is going to be a lemon. Not to mention the other shady parts like the mystery metal, low quality coatings, the multiple generations during release and the functionality problems that come with it. How many of these rifle are selling on the EE? they appear to be hard to move. When the stag got announced I had a heck of a time trying to unload my BCL receiver set. I basically gave it away.
 
driller212 said:
Man with how much effort you put into putting down the BCL-102s you must be getting paid or something, at least I hope you are...
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Can you blame him? It's crazy that people are buying the things when there are better options that don't have all the QC and baggage issues that BCL does.
 
driller212 said:
Man with how much effort you put into putting down the BCL-102s you must be getting paid or something, at least I hope you are...
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No brother.
Just voicing massive disappointment in Canadian product I was hoping to be proud of. I was probably more excited than anyone on this forum to hear of a NR AR10 by a mile.

I'm just one of the few people who won't make excuses for an inconsistent dice toss product "just because it's Canadian" and "we should be thankful". No thanks. It's not an excuse and it's not enough to make me put thousands down to roll the dice and play the lottery or not call a spade a spade.
I don't know I guess I'm in the minority on this. But it's my opinion on it and I'm entitled to it.
 
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Travis Bickle said:
No brother.
Just voicing massive disappointment in Canadian product I was hoping to be proud of. I was probably more excited than anyone on this forum to hear of a NR AR10 by a mile.

I'm just one of the few people who won't make excuses for an inconsistent dice toss product "just because it's Canadian".
I don't know I guess I'm in the minority on this. But it's my opinion on it.
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you are not the minority man, rest assured.
I have watched this all play out and feel the same way.
It's a problem I have seen with a few Canadian startups. Rolling out a product and using the consumer to r&d the kinks and issues that should have been ironed out in factory testing.
all the while, taking new orders and acting like there is no problems while they hide behind a "warranty" and make different generations as the customer performed r&d provides the needed feedback to eventually reach the product that should have been released in the first place.
That is why I don't support this company , it's products or any other Canadian manufacturer or overseas importer that uses customers for r&d while they release inferior and even dangerous products.
 
x2 on the above. BCL couldn't even be bothered to properly finish and anodize their receiver sets. Compared to the Stag and ATRS offerings it's subpar.
 
Like every other bcl thread all the haters come running to get on their soapbox.


Anyways.... Friend has been working through a case of Norinco with his bcl and told me hasn't had one issue yet. Never fired any norc that wasn't x39 so can't comment personally.
 
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It is quite obvious to me that we do not have a statistically significant survey of BCL 102 owners. Time and time again people who have never owned one jump in on the bandwagon.

I dislike seeing comments such as "Its crazy that people are buying the things....

I can assure that I am not crazy, I have a huge amount of firearms experience (civilian and military, potato gun to 105mm howitzer, in many countries, over many years). Very carefully researched my 102 purchase and am happy with a well finished, perfectly functioning, Canadian rifle. I swear that I will not try and read another BCL102 thread again....
 
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