Norenco M305 got here last week from Marstars

eaglesnester

eaglesnester

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Unpacked it first look: Stock does not suffer from previous cosmetic imperfections. Barrel registration is good. Rear sights move ok elevation and wind age but are a bit dodgie in that the click stops are not operating correctly. Action moves well, finish appears good, operating rod straight. Loaded up some rounds and headed for the range.
Loads were Burger 168grain VLD with 45.6g RE-15. Not impressed with accuracy. Rounds all over with no grouping at 100 meters on 8.5X11 target. Tried same bullet with Win748 and had the same problem. Tried Winchester SP 165grain with RE-15, 47 grains, way way, better but still no cigar starting to see a group come together but still not good. Fired all test rounds from a bench locked into a gun vise. On a better note have put my brass through 4 re loadings and still no incipient case head separation or pressure signs. Brass is standard commercial 308 brass.
Any suggestions on where I should go next for a bullet powder combo. Have thought about IMR4895 and a 150grain Remington PSP core lok. Not giving up yet as I understand that the M14 ChiCom Norencos are very load and bullet sensitive. Would be happy with 2 - 2.5 inches at 100 meters.
 
My eyes are old but even with factory sights I get better than 4 inch groups at 100 yards with 150gr Chinese surplus ammo. I get a bit better moa if I sight in my irons at 50 yards for less vision error.
 
Burgers are best eaten not shot :) Anyway, the Berger VLD's are a poor choice for the 14. VLD's are a specialised bullet and you are better off with SMK or Hornaday in the M14-type rifle.
 
tiriaq said:
Locked in a gun vise?
Try shooting if from the bench using sandbags for support.
Click to expand...
Yes, locked in a gun vise. How else are U going to determine accuracy of a load and the capabilities of the rifle? U must eliminate all or as much human error as possible. Sandbags would work but I did not have any. I had a gun vise.
 
And not introduce other problems.
Try it rested with sandbags.
A gun vise is not the same as a machine rest.
 
Tomochan said:
Burgers are best eaten not shot :) Anyway, the Berger VLD's are a poor choice for the 14. VLD's are a specialised bullet and you are better off with SMK or Hornaday in the M14-type rifle.
Click to expand...
What is the difference between a Berger VLD and an SMK or Hornady?
 
Tomochan said:
Burgers are best eaten not shot :) Anyway, the Berger VLD's are a poor choice for the 14. VLD's are a specialised bullet and you are better off with SMK or Hornaday in the M14-type rifle.
Click to expand...
What is the difference between a Berger VLD and an SMK or Hornady? Why is a Berger VLD hunting round a specialized bullet? The only difference that I can see between a Berger VLD hunting round and a precision VLD target round is jacket thickness
 
Have you shimmed the gas system as yet? This is one of the easiest mods and could help, even with load development.

Not trying to state the obvious but a load work-up with a single powder and bullet will be necessary to find the nodes where the rifle performs. A scatter-shot approach with many powder/bullet combinations just gets confusing and expensive.

I think that what Tomochan is suggesting is that Berger VLD's are kinda expensive at $0.65/pill for the M305 given the limits to precision on the platform. That said, one of my friends at the range this weekend had some outstanding results using 155 grain VLDs through his Norc (smallest group 0.6 MOA, the rest pretty good as long as he chased his first round flyers).

Personally, I tend to use Hornady 168 grain BTHP for this type of rifle.

Keep working on it and don't get discouraged. Your expectations are very reasonable for this type of rifle.
 
Berger VLD's are a bad choice for two reasons: firstly they are pricey for the M14 but that is your personal choice - you may be wealthy and so can afford it but the main, second, reason is that the VLD requires a great deal more fiddlef*cking arounf to fly properly. A few thou' off the lands and you may be at the perfect spot for launch - in my F-Class rig my COAL is 2.952 for this bullet; try that in your M14 and see what happens LOL. NO, please don't. The M14 requires a COAL of 2.800.

Here is a viable combo:

168 Honaday
41g H4895
WRR primers (ideal) but other if you know what you are doing
LC Brass if you have it but Win if not

You may think I'm full of it so you may wish to check out what this load can do:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1071402-Test-Day-with-LRB-M25

Cheers

Bob
 
Starting from the top.
I assume that you went through the gun and nothing is loose and all is slippy.
Having done that, a box of any factory ammo, Rem Corlokt 150 maybe, would give you a cheap fairly accurate load to establish a baseline. ( and you get some fresh brass)
Then tweak the gun till the groups stabilise. With a setup gun the Rems would give you 2 to 3 inches.
Then get into the load development and be prepared for a LOT of searching for the right load for YOUR 305
Cheap old 150 FMJBT and 4895 are a very capable combo.
In essence, get the sucker on paper with cheap stuff, then get into looking for a load, saes a lot of frustration.
Wish you good luck and welcome to the addiction.
 
Lost...again said:
Starting from the top.
I assume that you went through the gun and nothing is loose and all is slippy.
Having done that, a box of any factory ammo, Rem Corlokt 150 maybe, would give you a cheap fairly accurate load to establish a baseline. ( and you get some fresh brass)
Then tweak the gun till the groups stabilise. With a setup gun the Rems would give you 2 to 3 inches.
Then get into the load development and be prepared for a LOT of searching for the right load for YOUR 305
Cheap old 150 FMJBT and 4895 are a very capable combo.
In essence, get the sucker on paper with cheap stuff, then get into looking for a load, saes a lot of frustration.
Wish you good luck and welcome to the addiction.
Click to expand...
Yes I have more or less done what U have suggested. Have gone to Hornady A Max 155 grain and RE15 with Dan Newberries OCW method. Giving up on the Burgers for now but not completely. They fly so very very good in the right rifle with the right bullet weight, powder, and load. Going to order 1000 rounds of ChiCom Norenco M14 Nato to play with. Will use the A=Max to hunt with if I can get em to fly right.
 
eaglesnester said:
Yes I have more or less done what U have suggested. Have gone to Hornady A Max 155 grain and RE15 with Dan Newberries OCW method. Giving up on the Burgers for now but not completely. They fly so very very good in the right rifle with the right bullet weight, powder, and load. Going to order 1000 rounds of ChiCom Norenco M14 Nato to play with. Will use the A=Max to hunt with if I can get em to fly right.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan.
Work with one load, tweaking and fine tuning the gun until you get consistent groups, then work with the good stuff.
I cant get 168 HPBT to work in my gun with H4895 and almost gave up. Then I tried some Varget with the 168's, very happy with the results.
There is a lot of trial and error in your future but its worth it when you see those groups tighten up.
And you have the surplus to play with meantime :)

Resist the urge to buy "upgrades" until you know what the gun can do.
 
Hornady 168gr BTHP with 40.2gr of 4064 is what my 18" M1A likes. I have even tried the 178gr AMAX and got great results.
1"-1.5" is what the rifle does on a very good day, more towards the 1.5"-2" is what the rifle shoots consistently.
 
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