norinco m14 groups?

As others have stated, I think your results are not the norm. I've gotten groups half that size at 100 yards with open sights and absolutely no alterations whatsoever--straight from the box with a couple of hand loads. I haven't read through this threadinit's entirety, but I wish you luck in getting the accuracy issue resolved.
 
Ace604 said:
No not typical. Ive.gotten 1.5 inch groups with barnaul 147gr @ 100m with no upgrades. Also get 2.5+3 inch groups with the norinco x51. Outta my soc18.

As frumpy said a clinic would help. Or if you feel like tackling accurizing it, check out the stickies on the m14/305 on here.
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Same here with the same ammo. A bit of a surprise when I walked up to take a look at the target. It's happened on a couple of occasions with that ammo but never with any other ammo. I've gotten several 2.5" groups with Barnaul. Norinco is consistently 4" and Hornady Superperformance is out to lunch with 5 - 6"
 
Ace604 said:
As frumpy said a clinic would help. Or if you feel like tackling accurizing it, check out the stickies on the m14/305 on here.
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I can't agree with this. Clinics and the AMTU accurizing process are about wringing the best performance out of a fundamentally sound rifle. If this gun is shooting as poorly as the original poster says, his rifle is not fundamentally sound. It may have a serious mechanical issue, such as a flash suppressor that is mounted eccentric to the bore and causing bullet strikes. All the tweaking in the world won't overcome that. He needs to find and address the defect.
 
BattleRife said:
I can't agree with this. Clinics and the AMTU accurizing process are about wringing the best performance out of a fundamentally sound rifle. If this gun is shooting as poorly as the original poster says, his rifle is not fundamentally sound. It may have a serious mechanical issue, such as a flash suppressor that is mounted eccentric to the bore and causing bullet strikes. All the tweaking in the world won't overcome that. He needs to find and address the defect.
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At a clinic you would remove everything and put if back together under the careful eye of a seasoned pro. A clinic would certainly catch and fix an eccentrically mounted flash suppressor, lose op rod guide and many other things of this nature.
 
This might help. There is lots of good information at www.M14.ca, everything from what it should shoot for groups to diagrams. By the way Mil spec for the M14 is 3 MOA at 100 Yds. Ammo definitely is a factor. I have used several different brands and they all shoot different. This is why I reload. Even when reloading, powder/bullets can cause larger groups if your gun don't like them. Testing is the only way to get the groups down is size. Even buying the same manufacturers load several different times can cause larger or smaller groups as even the factories dies for powder change volume slightly due to wear or the dies have been changed just before your load was produced. My M14 shoots 2 MOA at 100 Yds, with lots of testing.
 
gr8tdragon said:
This might help. There is lots of good information at www.M14.ca, everything from what it should shoot for groups to diagrams. By the way Mil spec for the M14 is 3 MOA at 100 Yds. Ammo definitely is a factor. I have used several different brands and they all shoot different. This is why I reload. Even when reloading, powder/bullets can cause larger groups if your gun don't like them. Testing is the only way to get the groups down is size. Even buying the same manufacturers load several different times can cause larger or smaller groups as even the factories dies for powder change volume slightly due to wear or the dies have been changed just before your load was produced. My M14 shoots 2 MOA at 100 Yds, with lots of testing.
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Since my post, I shimmed the gas system (there was a little play after all), I straightened the guide, op rod and piston, I checked the flash hider for alignment, I made a nice leather cheek pad and I tightened all the scope and scope mount bolts with blue Loctite. I shimmed the extractor spring more and it's under way more tension now, this should do until I get my new spring set. The rifle is bore sighted and ready to go, but I need the time to test it...had no time yet but I will be damned if I don't make the time this week.

I have powder, shells, primers and I have a 311299 mold on the way...I need a press and dyes and I will be jumping on the reloading boat real soon, getting the powder was the hard part.
 
I get 2in groups at 100m and 3in groups at 200m using stock iron sights and hand loads (Hornady 150g FMJ, 42.5G of H4895 AND CCI 225 primer, OAL 2.820). I replaced the op rod but everything else is stock.

emerson said:
Not to be miserable about it, but are you a good irons shooter? If that might be an issue is there anyone you know that could shoot it also and compare results?
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ALMAR said:
Since my post, I shimmed the gas system (there was a little play after all), I straightened the guide, op rod and piston, I checked the flash hider for alignment, I made a nice leather cheek pad and I tightened all the scope and scope mount bolts with blue Loctite...
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But did you actually find anything wrong? A little play in the gas system is not going to cause the accuracy problems you described. There must be a major mechanical fault, somewhere.
 
Well you should be able to get at least 4 moa at 100 yard at 100 yard. Id start with maby verifying that your scope does not have a wandering zero and that your scope mounting solutions is consistent and does not come loose. I would also straight out your op rod. I have very limited experience with my m14 . It is stock except a black arrow spring guide and a blackfeather stock with a rock solid op rod guide. I am getting about 2 moa out of 1-4x scope bit I need to tune more the barrel harmonic; also if this is with norc ammmo.
20140503_184537.jpg
 
I found nothing wrong besides what i described and discovering that the scope mount was loose...i checked the headspace, or rather the cartridge loosness, the federal .308 is trimmed to 2.005 and extended to 2.016 or so after it is shot in this rifle, i double checked with the spent primer and empty resized brass trick...same thing...0.011''. This is huge for a .308 but quite within what should be expected for this rifle apparently...

well there is the issue of the safety popping out if the trigger is pressed...but i cant see how that is related.

I need to test it out at the range again to see whats up...every day i can go to the range, it either rains or something comes up...i'll post the results when i get them.
 
Redmaple said:
I'll have to give it a go.. Making 1.5 MOA will be a bit of a trick with stock iron sites; however, if I mount my Eotech 512 (or a scope), I can probably tighten the group to meet the standard. I have a scope mount so I'll see what I can do.
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We made the challenge 2 MOA for the folks shooting irons. The hard part is consistency.

Most of us have had the occasional phenomenal group, but the test is who can get their rifle to shoot predictably well.

Even the failed attempts teach us something.
 
Fifty yards is too close to start with. It doesn't tell you much. The thing to remember is that an M305 isn't a target rifle. I'd start be changing ammo. Might do as trigger job too.
My semi'd Winchester M-14 with the issue synthetic stock and everything else as issued, doesn't do much better than 3 or 4 inches. It's good enough for deer/moose, if it wasn't so evil.
 
I went to the range today to test it with the changes and I'm pretty happy. I first got the rifle to shoot on paper, I then tried the groups...I got pretty good results with both ammo, the federal and norc with the slight advantage to the federal...here are the results:

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the rifle:

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conclusion, scope mount bolts where the issue..and me being not so good with irons..yet
 
Glad to see you got er sorted. And 3 weeks ago you would have give it away LOL.
A bit of practice and some handloads will tighten those groups up even more.

Loctite IS your friend eh.
 
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