Ideas on Remington 700 In-Accuracy?

hunter-4-life

hunter-4-life

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Hey guys, having problems with getting my new-to-me remmy 700 LSS in 7mm rem mag to shoot. Tried different handloads, factory ammo etc. Best it'll do is 2.75" @100 yards with remington 150gr corelokt. I have checked the following:

1) Trigger: I loosed it off a bit, now breaking at a nice 3.75#
2) All screws are tight including scope rings/bases and action screws.
3)Barrel isnt free floating, there is a pressure point about 1.5" down from the fore end, however it touches at the fore end as well. On the bolt side, the stock doesnt touch the barrel, but on the opposite side the stock touches enough I cant get a piece of paper down between barrel and stock there.
4) I do see some bedding compound, but not very much at all.
5) Crown is in excellent shape. Not a mark on it.

Would the free floating issue be my problem? Im not flinching either, all are solid shots from the bench.

The first shot is ALWAYS 2-3" high, other 2 are good height wise, but always vary from left to right, and after 5 shots, they start going in a string pattern up and down in straight line, from what Ive read and heard from various gun smiths thats a barrel pressure issue. I think thats where the free floating issue would be.

Any help is greatly appreciated!
 
I agree with DG but i would just try a good cleaning of the bore and free floating the entire barrel chanel first - then reshoot it - ALSO do you know for sure that the scope is a PROVEN good one ? Also try another weight brand of ammo as some guns just don't LIKE certain bullets and loads ! Good Luck ! RJ
 
Floating the barrel is a very decided 'maybe'. Not all rifles like it, but the only way to find out if your's does is to try it.
Mind you, it does sound like your rifle isn't quite right when the barrel is touching the stock forward of the pressure point. Sand(assuming the stock is wood. Synthetics just need different grit sand paper though) out the forward pressure point and re-seal the channel with any wood sealer and try it. If that doesn't help, float the barrel.
Where are you seeing the bedding compound? It doesn't take much of it to bed a receiver, so the amount isn't an issue.
Just remember that a Rem M700 LSS is a hunting rifle, not a target rifle. A consistent 2.75" isn't horrible for a hunting rifle.
 
Seeing as you don't mention how old the rifle is, there are a couple of other factors to look at.

Many Remington bolt action rifles had pressure pads in the barrel channels. Usually, they were part of the wooden stocks. Even the later rifles still had these pads.

The pads were in place for a good reason. For one thing, they were spaced approximately where the best spot was located on the barrel to reduce harmonics. Considering the barrel manufacturing methods and the composition of the steel used for them at the time, this was and still can be a good idea. Of course, it doesn't work for all rifles.

Some people have removed these pressure pads, only having to build new ones. Model 721s were notorious for this.

Here is the big thing that even a lot of gunsmiths either forget or don't understand. If the bedding screws aren't torqued properly the pads can't do their job. Then there are the home enthusiasts, that are used to the new composite stocks with integral pillar or aluminum block bedding. They have never had to worry about torqueing bedding screws. Snug enough not to move is good enough for both of them.

Yes, there are still some of us that torque the bedding screws on every rifle, no matter what type of stock it's in. I personally believe I can wring the last bit of accuracy from just about any rifle, no matter which stock it's in by finding the sweet spot when torqueing the bedding screws. Usually, it does make a difference. Especially when changing from one bullet weight to another.

In most cases, the front bedding screw needs to be much tighter than the rear bedding screw. Makes sense, the front screw is right behind the main recoil shoulder plate on the Remington. Most bolt action and even semi auto rifles have similar set ups.

Each of these torque settings will change, sometimes marginally and sometimes a lot, when loads are changed.

Yeah, I know, splitting hairs on a flea's butt.

The thing is, bench rest shooters, who can be and are extremely anal about such things are fastidious about torqueing their bedding screws. It is usually one of the first things they check when accuracy goes south.

When screws are to tight, they can and will compress glass bedding. That means your receiver will slop around in the bedding and give you inconsistent accuracy. This is even more critical with wooden stocks.

When glass bedding became the rage, Remington was one of the first companies to use it on production rifles, before they left the factory.

They were very frugal with it and only bedded behind the recoil lug. This saved them a lot of trouble right away and I think they still continue to use the dab of glass on their wooden stocks to this day.

When they retooled, they were trying very hard to bring a failing company back into notice. One of the things they looked at was accuracy. CNC equipment, along with new bedding policies quickly gave their new production rifles a name for being the most accurate off the shelf rifle on the market at the time.

Torque values will be different for every rifle, wood or composite. Today's barrels seem to prefer full flotation rather than a pressure point to improve harmonics.

Next, bedding, no explanations needed there.

Now, are the leades worn badly???? Is your muzzle worn from improper cleaning?
 
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remington jim said:
I agree with DG but i would just try a good cleaning of the bore and free floating the entire barrel chanel first - then reshoot it - ALSO do you know for sure that the scope is a PROVEN good one ? Also try another weight brand of ammo as some guns just don't LIKE certain bullets and loads ! Good Luck ! RJ
Click to expand...

The scope is a leupold vari-x II 3-9x40

To answer everyone elses questions, the bedding was just in front of the recoil lug, and just behind it as well. The stock is grey laminate if that helps anyone as well. The rifle doesnt have the X-Mark Pro Trigger so I believe it is a pre-2006 model. Not 100% though.

I will try and maybe back the action screws off a tad and maybe shoot it. And I have tried different weights of bullets from 162-140. Best was 150gr core lokt. The muzzel is nto worn at all. Not a mark on it. The gun has only had 80 rounds through it tops. I bought it with only 20 through. And I know it isnt a target rifle, however I would like it even to shoot 1.5 if possible.
 
Can you post a pic or pics of the group? Sometimes that can help determine a course of action.

~ Make sure bottom metal is installed correctly.
~ Mag box should not be binding.
~ Damaged scope.
~ Scope, or covers, touching barrel.
~ Don't use see-thru covers.
~ Don't use a bipod.
~ Incorrect bedding.
~ Barrel too clean, or too fouled.
~ Aiming point too large.
 
hunter-4-life said:
The scope is a leupold vari-x II 3-9x40

To answer everyone elses questions, the bedding was just in front of the recoil lug, and just behind it as well. The stock is grey laminate if that helps anyone as well. The rifle doesnt have the X-Mark Pro Trigger so I believe it is a pre-2006 model. Not 100% though.

I will try and maybe back the action screws off a tad and maybe shoot it. And I have tried different weights of bullets from 162-140. Best was 150gr core lokt. The muzzel is nto worn at all. Not a mark on it. The gun has only had 80 rounds through it tops. I bought it with only 20 through. And I know it isnt a target rifle, however I would like it even to shoot 1.5 if possible.
Click to expand...

That is usually a pretty good scope. That being said, any scope can go bad.

It sounds like you have a shotgun type pattern.

Often, the cause of this is poor ignition. There may be dried grease in the bolt, causing inconsistent primer strikes. It could also be that the powder you are using is to slow or your loads are on the light side.

Still, the biggest cause of shotgun type patterns is bedding. Some of the above mentioned problems will also cause this.
 
sunray said:
..... A consistent 2.75" isn't horrible for a hunting rifle.
Click to expand...

Unless it's a shotgun I wouldnt be happy with 2 3/4'' groups at 100 yards.
I dont see a reason why you couldnt get at least 1''ish groups out of a modern bolt
action rifle unless the barrel is complete junk.

I'd clean the barrel down to bare metal and maybe do a bit of lapping with JB bore.
 
Mad_Mikee said:
Unless it's a shotgun I wouldnt be happy with 2 3/4'' groups at 100 yards.
I dont see a reason why you couldnt get at least 1''ish groups out of a modern bolt
action rifle unless the barrel is complete junk.

I'd clean the barrel down to bare metal and maybe do a bit of lapping with JB bore.
Click to expand...


If you are saying JBs will smooth out or lap the bore, you will be doing a lot of work for nothing. If you are saying to use JBs on a tight patch to scrub out the last of the copper fouling, I agree.

Better yet, get some Wipe Out and leave it in the bore overnight. This will dissolve every trace of copper in the bore and you can start over.
 
I'm shooting imr 4350 with 162gr hornady sst's I know I need a slower powder yet, but even with factory ammo I'm getting iffy groups. Will try and post a pic tomorrow!
 
4350 is not out of line with a 160-162gr bullet I have had great results with that combo. As said before wipeout overnight once or twice and maybe try a different brand of bullet if you want to stay with that weight range.
 
Maybe you found out why it was for sale? Still, it's hard to get a Remington to shoot that bad, esp since you have tried a few different loads and weights.

I know that you checked all your screws for tightness; but I'd check the base mounting screws again. The front mounting screw on a Remington is shorter than the rest and sometimes they get mixed up. If you get a long one in the shallow hole it will bottom out and although it feels tight it still isn't holding anything. Carefully look to see if the scope has been sliding in the rings, I see that one all the time.

Make sure the magazine box isn't crushed between the action and floorplate. There should be a tiny bit of movement that you can feel with your fingers.

Grab the barrel and forend together and twist, pull and otherwise get things moveing. If there's any screaching or grinding, grateing sounds or skips then look to your bedding. I've seen full floated barrels that could be pushed to one side of the barrel channel and they would stay there.

After checking your bases and rings again, try a different scope. It probably isn't the problem, but it could be.

The big one that spooks me is that you say that the first shot is always 3 inches out of the group. If by always you mean clean or dirty, different loads but just cold then I'm leaning toward a dud barrel. I've seen that before, and I've never seen one of those amount to anything no matter how much effort is put into it.
 
Well guys got it shooting a 0.97" 3 shot group tonight with hand loads. Had to go 1gr over max with 4350. No signs of pressure either so I'm thinkin I hit the sweet spot with those 162gr sst. The first shot wasn't high either, everything shot well. I took it apart last night again and did some more adjusting and what not. Not even going to take it apart again. It's staying like this. Thanks for the help everyone!
 
hunter-4-life said:
Well guys got it shooting a 0.97" 3 shot group tonight with hand loads. Had to go 1gr over max with 4350. No signs of pressure either so I'm thinkin I hit the sweet spot with those 162gr sst. The first shot wasn't high either, everything shot well. I took it apart last night again and did some more adjusting and what not. Not even going to take it apart again. It's staying like this. Thanks for the help everyone!
Click to expand...

So WHAT did you do to it ? :confused: :confused: :confused: Thks RJ
 
Took it apart all again, made sure everything was clean and nothing in there that it wasn't supposed to be there (chunks of bedding and some small bits of wood) put it back together, loaded some shells 1 gr over max in the book, and seated them a hair longer and shot it. Going to shoot 2 gr over max tomorrow and see if it gets smaller yet or opens up.
 
Most accuracy problems with Remington 700s and 7s are either the shooters or the stocks. I have owned approximately thirty 700s, and assembled many more, finding only one that truly had a bad barrel or was finicky about the load.


If shooter-error is ruled out, I would bet the issue is with the stock. Remington is notorious for using terrible stocks or simply not finishing them properly. Going cheap on the SPS economy line is understandable, but they use the same junk on the XCR line. The walnut stocks often require bedding and final finishing and a sealant in the barrel channel. The laminates are better just because they are solid, but also perform better with pillars, bedding, and a shaping touch up in the barrel channel.


I have had to return several of the Bell & Carlson stocked rifles due to quality control issues. I use to like the older Medalist stocks Remington used, but the new stuff is as bad as the SPS plastic. I have seen problems with the McMillan-stocked rifles coming out of the Remington Custom Shop. Now I do like McMillan stocks, but the problems I have seen are QC fit and finish problems with human laziness in the shop.


No complaints about the HS stocks used by Remington. I typically go straight to an aftermarket HS stock when building a Rem 700. I encourage all of my budz to drop their 700s into an HS stock. Amazing improvements in accuracy. I had an SPS 7 Mag with wild groupings up to 3" at 100m. An HS stock brought the groupings down to .5MOA. My CDL 35 Whelen was grouping an average of 4" in the factory walnut. I was shooting tight cloverleafs after dropping the cation into an HS stock. Sold the 35 to a BC Gunnut and he used it to take a beauty goat at over 400 yards. I rather miss tht rifle, but it as a good home.


Try an HS or McMillan as there is little work involved in swapping out the stock, otherwise check in with a reputable smith with experience in inletting and bedding for any of the lightweight stocks.
 
hunter-4-life said:
Took it apart all again, made sure everything was clean and nothing in there that it wasn't supposed to be there (chunks of bedding and some small bits of wood) put it back together, loaded some shells 1 gr over max in the book, and seated them a hair longer and shot it. Going to shoot 2 gr over max tomorrow and see if it gets smaller yet or opens up.
Click to expand...

Did you Bother to Clean it ? :confused: Or ? RJ
 
remington jim said:
Did you Bother to Clean it ? :confused: Or ? RJ
Click to expand...

When I took it apart the first time I didnt, just kinda blew the dust out of it and left it be, took notes of what was there and what I saw. Put it back together, cleaned the bore and ran some solvent and patches through the barrel and shot it, wouldnt shoot. Took it apart again and scrapped the chunks of wood and rough materiel off the stock in the channel and shot it again with the hotter load and it shot good. Sorry for the confusion!!
 
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