It already is affordable. Most people attending a BB course will learn A LOT.. It's 2 solid days of shooting under an instructor's guidance, plus the membership and administration fees for your IPSC section, all for $200ish.. Can't get any cheaper than that. The instructors would quadruple their income after expenses by flipping burgers instead.
How many years is the Black Badge Certification good for in IPSC ?
- Thread starter Gunexpert007
- Start date
It already is affordable. Most people attending a BB course will learn A LOT.. It's 2 solid days of shooting under an instructor's guidance, plus the membership and administration fees for your IPSC section, all for $200ish.. Can't get any cheaper than that. The instructors would quadruple their income after expenses by flipping burgers instead.
- Location
- Halifax - NS
Affordable, that's the other challenge. Try finding 2 days of pistol training for $200 bucks or possibly less; the BB is a bargain.
a few years back, the local cops here figured out it was a smoking deal and they started using it as their pistol training platform for ERT tryouts.
Again, class slots being wasted...
a few years back, the local cops here figured out it was a smoking deal and they started using it as their pistol training platform for ERT tryouts.
Again, class slots being wasted...
Yes .. we have spoken allot about this subject, at a club level, that at times IPSC "Eats their young". New IPSC shooter's don't get enough Level One (Club matches) tigger time. Before they go to a Level two or better match - and then get DQ'd ~ which takes the fire out of their belly for shooting IPSC.
This is a great idea. However it has been my experience that most BB instructors are donating their time and effort to help grow the IPSC sport that they love so much. Being available to all shooters would put a huge demand upon resources, which we clearly do not have.
To be available to all shooters, a suitable form of subsidy would clearly need to become available to those who are donating their weekends, thus taking away from the affordability factor.
Unfortunately, in Canada, we seem to have a lack of any similar style training available at any cost.
NB.nagantsniper
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- northern nb
- Location
- The Badlands
- Location
- Central AB
After having recently completed my BB course I'll go out on a limb and say that I'd like to see the RPAL course be a similar level of training. I belong to a small range that never has an RO present and on more than one occasion I've packed up and left because I didn't feel safe shooting beside certain range members. In my black badge course there was one shooter who had almost no handgun experience and went from not putting a single hit on a target at 7m during the first drills, to shooting primarily alphas by the end of the second day - safely.
I don't know how much IPSC I'll shoot, but I'm sure glad I took the course. I wish more handgun owners had a similar level of 'certification'.
I don't know how much IPSC I'll shoot, but I'm sure glad I took the course. I wish more handgun owners had a similar level of 'certification'.
I am going to call bull#### on this comment. I have been teaching the BB course for 14 years and the numbers of my students that have been DQ in their first match has just exceed my fingers. If I have 2 students DQ in a year that is a bad year and I review my training to make sure I am not missing something.
Hi Walter
Thank you for helping out and giving your time to IPSC for 14 years. A sport that you truly love, as do I.
We have 14 years of data on IPSC Alberta that could be reviewed for actuarial analysis. Take the DQ's list of the Level Two's or better and see how many newbie's (Shooting their first year, not just their first match) do not come back the next match or never come back. Analytical we could also review the shooters that shoot a few matches and leave the sport. Over 14 years how many have you trained - Why is X% or X number not shooting today? Cost of the sport, do not have fun at the sport, time commitment, ~ shooting only 10 minutes after spending 16 to 20 hours of a week-end on the range ~ Better Half saying "We could have had more fun elsewhere"? (other points Gunexpert007 referred to)
After Steve S was DQ'd for "finger in the trigger" ( one of your students ~ first year) he was upset. Quote "I enjoy playing sand lot baseball, not sure if I want to play Minor league baseball" Club matches vs IPSC Level 2 - he was close to not coming back - wife and kid pressure did the trick there. Remember the gentleman in his 70's shooting his first match with a revolver at the BC Provincials a few years ago - he did finally get DQ'd for breaking 90 - I don't think he ever came back? Just to name a few.
When was the last time you heard at a Level two or better a verbal warning of "Finger" or "Muzzle" given to a Newbie shooter (Old Phart's don't need to heard it nor want to hear it).
The RO Quote that I just hate "You just about Broke 90" If I did then send me home - if I didn't don't say anything.
Lets review the numbers and talk to the folks that don't come back, that way we could review your call of bull#### on this comment
Cheers
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I'm curious why you differentiated between L1 and L2 matches. Assuming we agree that safety is equally important at all level of matches...the main difference (in my experience) between L1 and L2 matches is the number of rounds. The matches are all sanctioned...the relative Level of difficulty is the same. Why would someone be more apt to DQ at a Level 2?
No hidden question...not trying to make a point...just wondering
No hidden question...not trying to make a point...just wondering
This is the same at Poco in BC. An occasionally we have people complaining who took the holster course and assumed they would be good to go for IPSC (or would get some sort of break) not realizing doing the BB made them good for holster at the club and IPSC.
^^ This is a brilliant idea.. I imagine this could be part of the lobbying campaign of the NFA, CSSA for changes to the FA, get a proposal to add it to the party platform at the next policy convention and lastly get the grass roots clamoring for it in every letter to MPs and federal ministers.
Safety Training Tax Credit.
heavenIsAlie
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Abbotsford
check with your benefits people, I argued my way into a course and a race holster being covered under mine since they couldnt find a way to deny it was a sport
In Ontario, you can play all other games with a club-level holster cert, but for IPSC you need BB and you can use it to play any other action game. I wasn't particularly interested in IPSC and didn't think the hassle of a BB course was worth it.. Would have got the club level course outta the way and that would have been ok to shoot 3gun (in addition to some PPC matches), which was what I had in mind. Being a big long gun fan and IPSC wasn't looking good for me in my section until this year when Chris and Dan decided to turn the whole thing around (thanks guys! also my thanks go out to Eugene for throwing the occasional practice rifle match at our club).
In 20/20 hindsight, the "hassle" was more than worth it even at face value. The level of instruction we got from Josko/Dennis/Mike was out of this world and I've made some friends in the course, which made me a lot better (less sucky lol) shooter in addition to enjoying their company. Some of the guys at the BB course already had their holster certs from other disciplines, a few matches under their belts and still learned a lot.
Slavex, you are making a good point.. In some regions, the government sponsors IPSC just like any other sport. Would be a great way to get more young ones involved and to get our better competitors to play on more big stages.
OK you are now mixing things. We started off talking about DQs for a BB student at his first match. I trashed my 2013 numbers back in April after submitting RO points but I can tell you that number is not high. I do review to make sure that the BB instructors are doing a good job of instructing their students.
Now if we are talking about how many don't shoot their first match or don't come back after the first year (which wasn't what your original comment said) then we are talking a big number. Going by memory (which is always suspected for a old guy like me) I think last time we look at the numbers about 60% never shoot their first match. Reasons given are to expensive, I am not good enough, can't get away. Of the 40% left half them will not be back in the second year. Excuses are to expensive, new sport or family obligations. Of the last 20% half of them will be gone in 3 to 5 years. Again most common reasons are family or doing something else although some times work is given as a reason as well.
Now if we are talking about how many don't shoot their first match or don't come back after the first year (which wasn't what your original comment said) then we are talking a big number. Going by memory (which is always suspected for a old guy like me) I think last time we look at the numbers about 60% never shoot their first match. Reasons given are to expensive, I am not good enough, can't get away. Of the 40% left half them will not be back in the second year. Excuses are to expensive, new sport or family obligations. Of the last 20% half of them will be gone in 3 to 5 years. Again most common reasons are family or doing something else although some times work is given as a reason as well.
To be competitive in IPSC, or any other shooting sport requires a significant dedication of time, even more so than money in my experience. It is my experience that trying to shoot IPSC, and F-class in the same season is impossible to do well.
Time obligations, family, work, cottages, ect. from what I have seen, are the biggest factors keeping people from continuing to participate. With match set up, and shooting we could be away from home every single weekend. I am as excessive and compulsive as every other shooter I know, and just can't commit as much. Something has to suffer.
Time obligations, family, work, cottages, ect. from what I have seen, are the biggest factors keeping people from continuing to participate. With match set up, and shooting we could be away from home every single weekend. I am as excessive and compulsive as every other shooter I know, and just can't commit as much. Something has to suffer.
