Extreme powders vs standard

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I have two loads my 358 win really likes. One is with IMR 3031. One is with H4895. I like the idea of the Extreme line, but what I don't know is, at what temp do they start to shine above the Non-Extremes like IMR 3031 ?.
Be a bummer to pull up a long one on Mr. Moo and toss it under his belly cause it was too cold. Has anyone seen a chart or literature regarding this?
Thank You
 
Don't go crazy over the advertised advantages of Extreme powders.
I also load for the 358 Win. and one of my favorite loads is with IMR3031 and the Hornady 200 Spire Point,
I shoot this load in temperatures of between +10 to -30c with complete satisfaction, my loads have been
developed in the fall and the scope is sighted just prior to hunting season, I have never seen any POI deviation
during the hunting season. It is important to develop your loads in the cool fall or spring temperatures so as not
to experience large velocity swings and POI shifts, this is the secret and it should be adhered to noo matter what powder you use,
it is also advisable to not shoot these loads in blistering summer temperatures unless you enjoy sticky bolts and difficult extractions,
this is a given with any powder and load that operates close to or at maximum.
I will always choose the powder that gives me the best accuracy and highest velocities weather it
is an Extreme powder or not, it makes no difference to me.
Good Luck
BB
 
When ADI developed their "extreme" powders, it was to keep stability and avoid pressure peaks under high and humid temperatures, they didn't have the minus 0 temprature in mind.
 
Extreme powders certainly work as intended:

Our exclusive line of extruded rifle powders – Hodgdon Extreme™ – was developed to give shooters consistent performance, load after load, in even the most extreme heat and cold

I've found more consistent velocities when running the same ammo over the chrono at different temps than using other powders.

Whether it really matters that much depends more on how far you are shooting. A bit of cold temperature velocity loss from a non extreme style powder isn't going to cause a miss on a moose at 200 yards, although I suppose with a 358 you have to be a bit more conscious of bullet drop than a 7mm magnum :)
 
I suppose with a 358 you have to be a bit more conscious of bullet drop than a 7mm magnum :)

Do You really want to know where the 70-100 fps will put the bullet if the moo isn't giving You the perfect Norman Rockwell? Wildlife sometimes don't offer full double lung shots and those fps changes don't only effect trajectory. They often have bearing on consistency with windage as well. I'm rather fond of bringing every advantage I can to the bush. As for power. I'd rather a 358 in his eye than a high steppin 7mm in his guts
 
The Australian manufactured powders had heat stability in mind, whereas the American manufactured Hybrid H-100V from St. Mark's Powder (General Dynamics) did test this stuff for use in extremely cold conditions. The test consisted of a high altitude, cold temperature blast, where the overpressure created by an air burst of a ton of powder was measured. There might be some debate as to the correlation between such a test and the charges typically fired in small arms cartridges, but it makes for interesting reading anyway. To my way of thinking, muzzle velocity is the only measurement that matters when a powder is used in the cold, as cold dense air effectively reduces a bullet's BC. Since chronographs, at least those that are affordable to individuals, develop accuracy problems under cold conditions, and since the bulky clothing necessary in the cold, interferes with the LOP of the rifle and causes parallax issues with the scope, and as previously stated, dense air reduces BC, and since the primer used may or may not be the best suitable for the conditions, the exact cause of a steeper trajectory in the cold can be difficult to pin down.
 
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IF you do your load developement close to zero degrees you likely wont have worry.....If you develop load in Summer you will likely see 150-200 fps loss in the Fall if temps are much lower.

That being said I do prefer using Hodgdon Extreme powders, they produce nice velocity, they are accurate, and seem to be more temp stable than others...

As stated above under 200 yards it wont make much difference.....
 
If your really curious you could freeze your loaded rounds in a vaccuum bag packed in ice, then transport them to range in a cooler, then fire group at range with ambient rounds then shoot the frozen ones and see POI change...
 
If your really curious you could freeze your loaded rounds in a vaccuum bag packed in ice, then transport them to range in a cooler, then fire group at range with ambient rounds then shoot the frozen ones and see POI change...

Exactly my plan
 
Do You really want to know where the 70-100 fps will put the bullet if the moo isn't giving You the perfect Norman Rockwell? Wildlife sometimes don't offer full double lung shots and those fps changes don't only effect trajectory. They often have bearing on consistency with windage as well. I'm rather fond of bringing every advantage I can to the bush. As for power. I'd rather a 358 in his eye than a high steppin 7mm in his guts

If you want the most advantage you can get, ditch the 358 for a higher velocity cartridge and use a good premium bullet. This will reduce your margin for error due to velocity loss and offer end to end penetration on a moose for when the perfect broadside shot isn't available.

Regardless of cartridge used, gut shots are not encouraged, although all of us are capable of screwing up a shot with any weapon.
 
If you want the most advantage you can get, ditch the 358 for a higher velocity cartridge and use a good premium bullet. This will reduce your margin for error due to velocity loss and offer end to end penetration on a moose for when the perfect broadside shot isn't available.

I didn't know higher velocity guaranteed end to end penetration. Let me get this straight. If I'm sitting out there with the 7mm RUM when we're hunting the flats but then with a nice light gun in 358 win for when we're walking I'm lacking how. Let me help You with this. I'm a purest. In short I don't want bullets going other than exactly where I point them regardless of temp (canon or pop gun). With knowledge of loads, distance, off hand practice time etc etc I don't have to carry a 700 express for all animals on earth, or to turn a bad shot good

I can't believe I even replied to that. 20 precious seconds of life I won't get back
 
I didn't know higher velocity guaranteed end to end penetration. Let me get this straight. If I'm sitting out there with the 7mm RUM when we're hunting the flats but then with a nice light gun in 358 win for when we're walking I'm lacking how. Let me help You with this. I'm a purest. In short I don't want bullets going other than exactly where I point them regardless of temp (canon or pop gun). With knowledge of loads, distance, off hand practice time etc etc I don't have to carry a 700 express for all animals on earth, or to turn a bad shot good

I can't believe I even replied to that. 20 precious seconds of life I won't get back

PS. For all the afore mentioned reasons I never have in near 60 yrs



Sound like you've got it all figured out! Congratulations?

:)
 
Never missed in 60 years?
not quite true. 60 yrs old, hunted for 46. what I meant was no animal ever went un-recovered due to the clumsiness of trying to use big guns to clean up bad placement. Every animal I've fired on ended up in my freezer. xept for skunks, coons and such;). Soon as you think canons compensate for proper technique the suffering begins
 
If your really curious you could freeze your loaded rounds in a vaccuum bag packed in ice, then transport them to range in a cooler, then fire group at range with ambient rounds then shoot the frozen ones and see POI change...

Exactly my plan

If you guys are talking about shooting when its very cold out, that isn't going to work since the bullet is traveling through warm air which is less dense than cold air. You will get closer results plugging your load data into JBM, then enter a cold temperature and compare that to your real world trajectory. By freezing the ammo, you might be able to replicate the muzzle velocity that you would get in the cold, but the POI at any given range will still differ from what you would see when it is cold.
 
I have two loads my 358 win really likes. One is with IMR 3031. One is with H4895. I like the idea of the Extreme line, but what I don't know is, at what temp do they start to shine above the Non-Extremes like IMR 3031 ?.
Be a bummer to pull up a long one on Mr. Moo and toss it under his belly cause it was too cold. Has anyone seen a chart or literature regarding this?
Thank You

You have to shoot in the same conditions you hunt in. If you hunt in cold conditions, never mind the charts or computer generated predictions; get out and shoot, and record the results you observe with your loads in your rifles, at the ranges you commonly shoot at. Sometimes that's not much fun, but its the only way to know for sure.
 
This issue with velocity losses in cold weather, and the subsequent "need" for powders that are not temperature sensitive
is blown way out of proportion, in my way of thinking.

Having hunted since 1958, and reloading since 1964, I have yet to experience a situation where an "Extreme" powder would have actually made a difference
in the hunting field.

For the guy shooting long range targets, there may be some virtue in more temp stable powders.

In the game field, it's, in reality, a non-issue, and wasting time trying to develop a load with a specific powder, just because it is classified as temperature stable
is largely a waste of time. This is particularly true if a zinger load with a non extreme powder has already been developed.

Regards, Dave.
 
The Extreme part is a marketing term. Hodgdon's 'H' powders have been around for eons now without being extreme about it.
This is the important part. "loads my 358 win really likes"
 
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