Tavor Trigger

Speckfire said:
You will have hours of frustration trying to get good groups using a good optic and a horrible trigger.
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Not necessarily. The milsurp boys are shooting old war horses with triggers that can by complimentarily compared to 8 miles of oil lease road - and they shoot with incredible accuracy. You need a good bullet, a good barrel and a good shooter first. That second one is a kicker for the Tavor...I want a heavier, 22~24" air gaged match barrel option too! We are too quick to accept stuff we shouldn't. They say bullpups can't have a good trigger or shoot with any accuracy - and that is utter rot. Timney just did away with the trigger problem. We're only half way done, boys. We need a decent barrel for this rifle to take full advantage of the better optics and triggers. It isn't an 'either/or' proposition to me, I think we need all these aspects nailed down to make this beast shoot to it's maximum potential.
 
One Lung Wonder said:
Not necessarily. The milsurp boys are shooting old war horses with triggers that can by complimentarily compared to 8 miles of oil lease road - and they shoot with incredible accuracy. You need a good bullet, a good barrel and a good shooter first. That second one is a kicker for the Tavor...I want a heavier, 22~24" air gaged match barrel option too! We are too quick to accept stuff we shouldn't. They say bullpups can't have a good trigger or shoot with any accuracy - and that is utter rot. Timney just did away with the trigger problem. We're only half way done, boys. We need a decent barrel for this rifle to take full advantage of the better optics and triggers. It isn't an 'either/or' proposition to me, I think we need all these aspects nailed down to make this beast shoot to it's maximum potential.
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Here here!!! :rockOn:
 
One Lung Wonder said:
Not necessarily. The milsurp boys are shooting old war horses with triggers that can by complimentarily compared to 8 miles of oil lease road - and they shoot with incredible accuracy. You need a good bullet, a good barrel and a good shooter first. That second one is a kicker for the Tavor...I want a heavier, 22~24" air gaged match barrel option too! We are too quick to accept stuff we shouldn't. They say bullpups can't have a good trigger or shoot with any accuracy - and that is utter rot. Timney just did away with the trigger problem. We're only half way done, boys. We need a decent barrel for this rifle to take full advantage of the better optics and triggers. It isn't an 'either/or' proposition to me, I think we need all these aspects nailed down to make this beast shoot to it's maximum potential.
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There is soo much misinformation in what are you stating. Most of my milsurps have better triggers than my Tavor. And yes they did out-shoot my Tavor too. What I'm stating is to upgrade your trigger 1st before you buy a good optic. It's cheaper and you will get to see the rifle's full potential before going into expensive optics.
 
Speckfire said:
There is soo much misinformation in what are you stating. Most of my milsurps have better triggers than my Tavor. And yes they did out-shoot my Tavor too. What I'm stating is to upgrade your trigger 1st before you buy a good optic. It's cheaper and you will get to see the rifle's full potential before going into expensive optics.
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Sound advice
 
I don't really understand why people are #####ing about a gun that was designed for primarily CQB and saying it's not good for long range because of this this and this. Jesus guys if you wanted a gun you can shoot at long range then buy one for that. The RFB has a lighter trigger because it was designed as a .308 bullpup for the outdoors and not for combat. The heavy trigger on the tavor is for increased reliability allowing the trigger to reset under the worst conditions. It wasn't designed to be a sub MOA gun. Nor was it designed to be benched. It was designed to be a short range battle rifle with SOME capability for mid ranges.
 
Luis1 said:
I don't really understand why people are #####ing about a gun that was designed for primarily CQB and saying it's not good for long range because of this this and this. Jesus guys if you wanted a gun you can shoot at long range then buy one for that. The RFB has a lighter trigger because it was designed as a .308 bullpup for the outdoors and not for combat. The heavy trigger on the tavor is for increased reliability allowing the trigger to reset under the worst conditions. It wasn't designed to be a sub MOA gun. Nor was it designed to be benched. It was designed to be a short range battle rifle with SOME capability for mid ranges.
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Yes and no, Luis. When the M16 came out is was a POS. The first thing the savvy soldier did when he got to Viet Nam was to try and trade it away for an M14 or some other preferred weapon. Look at that gun today: if you want a gopher gun - the AR will do it. Swap out a few parts and you can go to Camp Perry and if you have the skills you can win it. Swap out a few more and you are deer hunting with a 458 SOCOM or a Beowulf or what have you. Back in the 60's you were stuck with what the factory gave you. In this day and age we can have it all. I can order my burger any way I want it and have it in minutes. I want the same deal for my rifle. Timney and Gisseille have thrown their hats into the ring...and I am hoping the barrel makers and shade tree gunsmiths jump in!
 
One Lung Wonder said:
Yes and no, Luis. When the M16 came out is was a POS. The first thing the savvy soldier did when he got to Viet Nam was to try and trade it away for an M14 or some other preferred weapon. Look at that gun today: if you want a gopher gun - the AR will do it. Swap out a few parts and you can go to Camp Perry and if you have the skills you can win it. Swap out a few more and you are deer hunting with a 458 SOCOM or a Beowulf or what have you. Back in the 60's you were stuck with what the factory gave you. In this day and age we can have it all. I can order my burger any way I want it and have it in minutes. I want the same deal for my rifle. Timney and Gisseille have thrown their hats into the ring...and I am hoping the barrel makers and shade tree gunsmiths jump in!
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This.
 
Speckfire said:
There is soo much misinformation in what are you stating. Most of my milsurps have better triggers than my Tavor. And yes they did out-shoot my Tavor too. What I'm stating is to upgrade your trigger 1st before you buy a good optic. It's cheaper and you will get to see the rifle's full potential before going into expensive optics.
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I think it's too early to say that. To my knowledge, there hasent been any accuracy tests between the factory trigger and the Timney. If Mike was getting 1.75MOA with his factory trigger , I'd say it's probably good enough, especially if you have a realistic expectation of the rifles accuracy. And for us guys who run Aimpoints and other dot sights without magnification, I don't think we'd benefit much from the accuracy gain with the after market triggers, whatever that may be. Even if it takes it from a 2MOA to a 1MOA (doubtfully), how much of an improvement in accuracy do you think you'd get between using the BUIS the rifle comes with compaired to using a quality optic? More than 1MOA I bet.
 
Maddy you're talking 200m max and I'm talking 400m. Red dots vs magnified scopes. If you are using the Tavor in a CQB role a better trigger will give you better double taps too ;)
And yes you bet your a$$ the MOA should go down too with a better trigger.
 
Speckfire said:
Maddy you're talking 200m max and I'm talking 400m. Red dots vs magnified scopes. If you are using the Tavor in a CQB role a better trigger will give you better double taps too ;)
And yes you bet your a$$ the MOA should go down too with a better trigger.
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I absolutely agree. I've been thinking about getting the Timney just to make it a nicer shooter, and for quicker double taps, mag dumps, ect. But I thought we were talking accuracy. I have no doubt that the groups will shrink with the Timney, by how much though? I think that adding a optic will improve hit potential more than running BUIS and a trigger upgrade. Whether it be long range or short.
The Tavor wasent really designed for shooting out to 400m, but if that's your thing all the power to you. I have no doubt with the right gear the Tavor is more than capible of doing that. Myself, I'm happy with a center of mass hit a 300 yards, and head shots at 100. I actually can do better than that with just a Aimpoint and stock trigger. Strictly speaking accuracy, I'm able to complete the task I want to with the crappy trigger. I'll likely get the upgrade one day just to make it a nicer gun to shoot, and for better follow up shots, its just not too high on my list of prioritys.
 
Over a year ago I handled a Gen 1 Tavor. The owner dropped in a Snap Cap and let me try the trigger. I pulled, and pulled then thought the sneaky bugger switched the safety back on when he was handing it to me, but no, as I increased pressure more it finally broke.
In all my years of shooting, that was the UGLIEST trigger I had/have ever pulled.

He pulled out his trigger pull gauge and it showed a 12 lb pull! He then told me a small spring could be removed from the trigger pack, he did this and handed the rifle to me again. The pull was a bit lighter, but still fairly hard in my opinion. He gauged the trigger pull again with the small spring removed and it showed just under 9 lbs.

Move ahead a year and I ended up purchasing a Tavor, a Gen. 2, which has a different trigger pack that does not have the small spring the Gen. 1 had. I dry fired mine when it arrived and I was surprised how much better it was when compared to a Gen 1. My RCBS trigger pull gauge indicated a 8 - 8.25 lb pull.

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I was one of the lucky guys on first group of Timney triggers from Boss Hogg. After installing it my trigger pull gauge shows just over a 4 lb pull.

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The trigger pull is much, much lighter than a Gen 1 with/without the small spring, and half the pull weight of the stock Gen. 2 trigger.
However, the trigger reset is a bit shorter, the point where the trigger breaks is more consistent and it is smoother, crisp break. Rather than the stock heavy, vague, gritty trigger.

I have read comments like "it's a military trigger", "get used to it", etc.
To compare, a stock AR trigger is much better than any stock Tavor trigger pack. I have a Timney in my AR, lots of guys upgrade their AR's to Timney, Geissele, etc. WHY? To improve an already decent military trigger to their shooting style(s) and preferences.

I have a NF 2.5 - 10 scope on my Tavor. With the stock trigger (8 lbs) and the scope set at 10X, when shooting at 100 yards I could see my reticle move as I was pulling the trigger to the breaking point. Sure, if I worked on it I could probably get more used to the awful heavy, gritty trigger! However, with the Timney I see little to no reticle movement before the round goes off. Obviously with a RDS this would not be easily seen.

I'll agree, the $410.00 to get the Tavor Timney trigger is a bit pricey, however I paid $270.00 for my AR Timney trigger and guys pay over $300.00 for Geissele AR triggers. I use my 12.5" AR with an Eotech more for close range shooting and the Timney shines when compared to the stock AR trigger.

IMHO the price to upgrade the Tavor trigger is well worth it, no matter what style or type of shooting you are doing. My Tavor is now a pleasure to shoot and I know with a bit more range time, the lighter, clean breaking trigger will help long range accuracy to improve, as well as the shorter/quicker reset will help close range action type shooting.

My Tavor is now complete!! I think! LOL
 
So TV-PP and others who have paid the money and installed their new triggers, why no range reports?

I think most people are once again delusional with their expectations. I agree with the comments saying the rifle will be much nicer to shoot but I wouldn't expect to see much more than 1/4-1/2 moa increase in accuracy off the bench.
For those that want a noticeable increase in accuracy I think a new barrel is in order.
Does the Tavor use a barrel extension like the AR? Can you order them? If so, I would have a new barrel built and look into ways of reducing contact points between the the chassis and the barrel down to just the gas block. I'm not really sure why it even matters though since most people are shooting crap norc surplus and other bulk 55gr ammo 95% of the time. The rifle was designed to be a battle rifle not a sniper or DMR rifle. Enjoy it for it's positives like the short overall length while still having an 18 inch barrel for higher velocity than a short barrel rifle.
I don't think anyone has honestly done better than 1.5-2moa consistently and I would be very happy with that.
 
TV-PressPass said:
My rangetime hasn't been conducive to reporting:
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Well that definitely looks fun and is much more along the lines of what the rifle was designed to be used for :)
Does your scope have mildot reticle? Must take some practice to figure out your hold for those shots with the rifle on it's side.
I wish my range had obstacles like that to play with. Prob just get the same a$stards that ruin the plywood backstops with their shotguns over there shooting those up as well if we had them :(
 
If you don't like the Tavor trigger, just shoot 50 rounds of double action pistol and you will be cured.

Above it was said that the trigger will be the cause of accuracy issues. In reality the trigger has little to do with your accuracy on this type of rifle. 2oz triggers are for bench rest rigs which would still shoot 3/8 inch groups with an Enfield trigger. The trigger is not to blame if this rifle is not a tack driver - its a semi auto with a thin barrel - end of story. You can only expect so much from it.
 
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