Help with 577 Snider

I will be looking at making some .577 snider rounds at some point. I just picked up a mk3 Snider Carbine on the weekend at a local show. I have fired one previously out in Stittsville a few weeks ago. The guy that left me shoot his was using plastic shotgun hulls and ball ammo. Anyone using smokless instead of BP? I have seen some mention of Green Dot out on the interwebs.
 
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Aviator747 said:
I will be looking at making some .577 snider rounds at some point. I just picked up a mk3 Snider Carbine on the weekend at a local show. I have fired one previously out in Stittsville a few weeks ago. The guy that left me shoot his was using plastic shotgun hulls and ball ammo. Anyone using smokless instead of BP? I have seen some mention of Green Dot out on the interwebs.
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don't use smokeless in a snider its a very dangerous combo. the mk1 and mk2 are made from converted p1853 enfield muskets the mk3 is steel all the way and made with new parts while they are stronger they were only made to handle black powder and its pressure curve that it what it should be shot with its not hard and its the really the only option. also stay away from 777 or any substitute other then pyrodex as most of these are volume for valume smokeless
 
I'm sure an experienced reloader could pull it off, but the smaller charge of smokeless rolling around in that huge case gives me pause...
A definite Universal fan here, as it's the go-to BP replacement powder. But the minuscule amount of powder in a original BP case concerns me every reloading session. Really easy to fit a double charge in there. And occasionally the firearm will throw out a round that has a different report...charge placement?
And don't get me started on Bullseye; that powder is an awesome lawn fertilizer IMO
But I would carefully work up a BP replacement charge such as Pyrodex
 
Not personally, but in most cases a 20 ga hull is too large I think. Although I've seen a bored to 20 ga carbine for sale on the EE before; it would be a handy setup, but likely a b***h to get the original bbl off to achieve the boring.
If anyone felt like tackling it, I've a prime (albeit very short; but hey, it's still legal) candidate in my parts drawer.
 
I've been shooting 32 grains of 5744 and 32 grains of IMR4198. Both work well, with the nod going to the 5744, I think. That charge actually has less pressure than a proper load of black. FYI, I am shooting a Mk.III with a perfect bore.
 
gabrielguitars said:
I've been shooting 32 grains of 5744 and 32 grains of IMR4198. Both work well, with the nod going to the 5744, I think. That charge actually has less pressure than a proper load of black. FYI, I am shooting a Mk.III with a perfect bore.
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it may have less pressure but the pressure curve is different you are playing a deadly game with a rifle that was first a muzzleloader and then converted breechloader it will cause all kinds of problems down the road and it will do all kinds of damage if any pressure gets under the breech block even with the mk3
 
antiqueguy said:
it may have less pressure but the pressure curve is different you are playing a deadly game with a rifle that was first a muzzleloader and then converted breechloader it will cause all kinds of problems down the road and it will do all kinds of damage if any pressure gets under the breech block even with the mk3
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Please post copies of these pressure curves.
 
Mk.III, I said. NOT converted from a muzzleloader, built as a breechloader from the beginning; also steel, not iron. These smokeless powders actually have a gentler pressure curve than black, please read the series, "Finding Out For Myself," in the Double Gun Journal. Safe.
 
gabrielguitars said:
Mk.III, I said. NOT converted from a muzzleloader, built as a breechloader from the beginning; also steel, not iron. These smokeless powders actually have a gentler pressure curve than black, please read the series, "Finding Out For Myself," in the Double Gun Journal. Safe.
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id still not touch it with a 10ft pole and personally the reason most shoot antiques is to have all the fun of the smoke and fire that black powder brings anyone trying to shoot something meant to shoot black powder with smokeless will eventually run into trouble.
 
antiqueguy said:
there's a few charts on British militaria forum. trailboss that is supposed to be a good sub for black powder because of the bulkiness is one of the worst
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Loads using two specific powders were mentioned. You referred to the pressure curves. Please post copies of the pressures curves for these powders, along with comparable curves for black gunpowder.
 
I'm chiming back in here!!

I load and shoot several different black powder calibers. I do load smokeless in .43 caliber for a 71/84 Mauser but that's an entirely different t action then a snider!!

I would advise against loading smokeless for ANY snider action as if you do have an accident or mistake I'd bet 1 million dollars that the breech block is going to let go! Sure a reduced smokeless charge may hold but in a large case like the .577 it is very easy to overcharge it with smokeless.

Now that being said I'm all for experienced reloaders experimenting with different powders and I do on occasion. But I never tell others to replicate my BP to smokeless loads as to reprocussions of an over charge with an antique could mean serious injury or death to the shooter. Switching between black powder and smokeless is a dangerous game especially when dealing with a rifle made in the late 1850's- 1870's.

Rifles of the snider era are very neat but one has to remember that the inventors/ manufacturers were still experimenting and perfecting the thing we call a "firearm". It's not until the "transitional period" (1880's-1890's) that things like turning bolt actions and locking lugs were perfected and became strong and safe similar to modern rifles.

Please everyone, be safe and have fun!!

BTW, half the fun of snider shooting is having black, dirty hands anyway!!
 
Tinman204 said:
I'm chiming back in here!!

I load and shoot several different black powder calibers. I do load smokeless in .43 caliber for a 71/84 Mauser but that's an entirely different t action then a snider!!

I would advise against loading smokeless for ANY snider action as if you do have an accident or mistake I'd bet 1 million dollars that the breech block is going to let go! Sure a reduced smokeless charge may hold but in a large case like the .577 it is very easy to overcharge it with smokeless.

Now that being said I'm all for experienced reloaders experimenting with different powders and I do on occasion. But I never tell others to replicate my BP to smokeless loads as to reprocussions of an over charge with an antique could mean serious injury or death to the shooter. Switching between black powder and smokeless is a dangerous game especially when dealing with a rifle made in the late 1850's- 1870's.

Rifles of the snider era are very neat but one has to remember that the inventors/ manufacturers were still experimenting and perfecting the thing we call a "firearm". It's not until the "transitional period" (1880's-1890's) that things like turning bolt actions and locking lugs were perfected and became strong and safe similar to modern rifles.

Please everyone, be safe and have fun!!

BTW, half the fun of snider shooting is having black, dirty hands anyway!!
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thank you and as for publishing home grown load data(read not pressure tested) its never a good idea and I have some my self that I will never give out because not every gun is the same
 
I believe the modern smokeless version of the .577 is called the 577 T-rex.
Google 577 T-rex, watch the video and tell me if you still think it's a good idea, lol
 
tokguy said:
I believe the modern smokeless version of the .577 is called the 577 T-rex.
Google 577 T-rex, watch the video and tell me if you still think it's a good idea, lol
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the .577 t rex is not anything the .577 snider its a modern round that's also happens to be rimless. if you really want to look at it in the retrospect the .577 nitro express is based on the .577 black powder express but id not shoot a nitro express in a rifle meant for black powder express cartridges(nitro for black in something like that is ok). a nitro for black round in a snider could end up being a very bad idea and is almost like looking for a Darwin award. even in the martini system is only use it in the mk4 pattern I have used it in the mk4 and I got to say in that big case a 40% load of smokeless for black is not much and can lead to a big hang fire if not enough polyfill is used(trailboss is also a no no in the martini system it was proved to be dangerous)
 
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