The .577 Snider is actually not really that much bigger than a .45-70, in terms of usable powder capacity. Regardless, I am a very experienced handloader, and have been reloading for rifle, pistol, shotgun, BP cartridges, my own wildcats, etc., for nearly two decades. A double charge of powder is almost impossible for me to do, considering the way I load. I use no loading blocks, and when I weigh (always weigh each charge, I do) my powder, I immediately put it in the case, add any filler if need be, and then immediately seat a bullet and crimp. This may be a slower way, but I have found that it cuts down on the possibilty of double-charging or not charging a case, and have never had either. This being said, I would point to studies that have been done on smokeless powders being used in BP cases in antiques (such as , "Finding Out For Myself," by Sherman Bell), as well as the fact that factory loads for black powder cartridges are mainstream (.45-70 loads being safe for Trapdoors, for instance), and have been used safely for many decades. .43 Mauser, .41 Swiss, and others were loaded commercially for a long time with smokeless powders, what I'm doing is no different. There are many powders available these days that will give lower peak pressures and similar pressure curves to BP at the same velocities as BP, such as 2400, 4759, RL 7, 4198, 5744, etc. (NOT Trail Boss!). If I can gain velocity at the same pressure, or more usually, get lower pressures at the same velocities as BP without the mess, and have a pound of powder last longer, why wouldn't I? I'm not advocating for others to do it, but I will. Many years ago, I shot Damascus barreled double shotguns, though so many cried death and destruction about it. Years later, studies have shown they are not unsafe as was thought. I guess each person will make his own decisions. As for me, I'll save the Holy Black for my flinter, and the occasional cartridge fun.
Help with 577 Snider
- Thread starter spoc
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antiqueguy
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I reload in the same way and I do find it safer s for Damascus a have one really good example that I shoot a lot mostly with BP like everything in this world you have to know what you are doing
I'll chime in here... a while ago I ran across some pressure traces of different smokeless substitutes as well as black powder. I'm in the middle (muddle?) of moving so finding the diagrams might take a bit. But I seem to recall that T. Boss produced significantly higher peak pressures than b.p. I can't remember what calibre it was, but it was smaller than .577. I'll try to hunt down the pressure curves. They were measured., not just calculated by software.
TB is bulky, which can be an advantage, but it is not necessarily a lower pressure powder.
Not .577, but there were excellent articles in The Double Gun Journal describing smokeless-for-black shotgun loads. Author had access to both strain gauge and crusher pressure measuring systems. He described useful game loads that were in the 6000 psi range.
Smokeless does not necessarily produce more pressure tan black, and black is not necessarily a low pressure powder.
Not .577, but there were excellent articles in The Double Gun Journal describing smokeless-for-black shotgun loads. Author had access to both strain gauge and crusher pressure measuring systems. He described useful game loads that were in the 6000 psi range.
Smokeless does not necessarily produce more pressure tan black, and black is not necessarily a low pressure powder.
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Yes, by simply googling "pressure curve black powder trail boss" I found links to articles referring to Sherman Bell's work that was reported in Double Gun Journal. Trail Boss peaks high and fast as I remembered. Interestingly SR 4759 peaks low but has a more sustained pressure impulse, so it ends up with lower peak pressure than the others (including b.p.) but higher velocity, since the latter is a function of the area under the pressure trace, and not just the peak pressure. I've shot a lot with SR4759 in various calibres from .30 to .50-70, but not with any success in .577. That powder seems to be very sensitive to lack of sealing of the bullet: even with soft lead Minié boulets, there's not enough seal, and pressure doesn't build up enough for the powder to burn right. Velocity is mediocre. My Minié bullets are plenty wide to seal the bore but only after a foot or so from the breech. So I ought to be paper-patching to get a better seal right from ignition. The primers may be a factor as well. The brass shotshells are made to take LP primers, but I wonder if I should attempt with LR...
antiqueguy
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- Location
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trail boss is a big problem in .577-450 as well
Since this year, I now use Blackhorn 209 in BP cartridges and it provides me many more shots between claening, good accuracy / velocity at "normal" BP pressure. I still need to work up compressed loads and not use the Grains / Volume but rather the grains / weight, but for me it's a good alternative.
I always use Magnum primers to the task.
And it cleans with "standard" powder and lead solvents...
I always use Magnum primers to the task.
And it cleans with "standard" powder and lead solvents...
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antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- windsor ontario
blackthorn 209 is a smokeless and id not use it in a snider. I like black powder for its easier clean up just add water
Well, not totally true;
Energy-wise, it doesn't produce enough pressure to be qualified as Smokeless.
Pressure curve is also very similar to Triple 7 FFG and is VERY EASY to clean.
http://www.blackhorn209.com/nevada/
I've talked to the inventor (the powder is made at General Dynamics in Valleyfield, Qc) and all the testing proved that the powder is very similar to FFG.
But I can understand one may be cautious using it in weaker actions / barrels.
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