M14 Smith in Vancouver Area

Disassemble, clean and grease up well as per the stickies, all I see for lubrication appears to be left over packaging oil. These rifles need to be well lubricated to run properly and smooth. Other than that check OP rod alignment to make sure it's not binding, spring /spring guide. Other than that it seems you Have covered most of the bases. But someone more knowledgeable will chime in I am sure with other ideas. Good luck figuring things out.
 
My observations:

- What Walleyed99 said, grease 'er up.
- I agree with machman, that flash hider is definitely spot welded on right behind the bayonet lug. If your gas lock tightens up nicely though there's probably no need to worry about getting the flash hider off.
- Nice score on a Norc headspace below 1.638!

Do you have any way of taking a close look at the inside of the chamber? Flashlight and mirror maybe? It would be good to rule out a chamber imperfection as the cause of those hard extractions. There'd likely be some evidence on the outside of the cases of gouging or heavy scratching.
 
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machman said:
That discoloration on the bottom of the FH looks like evidence of spot-welding to me.
Click to expand...

Your right, that does look like a spot weld; if I ever wanted to get this thing off how would I do it? I was under the impression that they were just welding castle nuts and you could cut through the tac
Here's a better angle on the 'spot weld' area
IMG_4947.jpg


Better shots of the castle nut
IMG_4937.jpg


IMG_4935.jpg
 
Pop said:
My observations:

Do you have any way of taking a close look at the inside of the chamber? Flashlight and mirror maybe? It would be good to rule out a chamber imperfection as the cause of those hard extractions. There'd likely be some evidence on the outside of the cases of gouging or heavy scratching.
Click to expand...

I saved the last 4 shells I extracted, and other than some surface scratches and light fouling around the neck, I don't notice anything. Maybe some others have some eagle eyes:

Hornady Superperformance 165gr Interbond:
IMG_4955.jpg

IMG_4960.jpg


Hornady 168gr NTHP:
IMG_4968.jpg

IMG_4970.jpg
 
so when it's firing, it's not grabbing the case at all for extraction when the bolt comes back? or it's firing and the bolt is not unlocking at all?
this is real important
if the gas is on, and the bolt is not unlocking when the round is fired..... that not good
off the top of my head, if the gas system is working as in piston moves freely , some vacuum is good, and gas port alignment checks out as you verified..... it's not the gas system
but if the rifle is firing and the bolt is staying locked, it's either a chamber issue ie chamber wall dimension too tight or is ovalled or burred preventing extraction..... carefully inspect cases for ovalling around circumference and gouges, rings imprinted in brass
in absence of anything anomalous in the chamber, the oprod and track as well as bolt/safety bridge/bolt release should be inspected for interference with the bolt or oprod that is preventing the normal function of the recoil system.
that's all I got for ya :D
 
SpicyRichter said:
Your right, that does look like a spot weld; if I ever wanted to get this thing off how would I do it? I was under the impression that they were just welding castle nuts and you could cut through the tac
Here's a better angle on the 'spot weld' area
IMG_4947.jpg


Better shots of the castle nut
IMG_4937.jpg


IMG_4935.jpg
Click to expand...

The trick to getting the flash hider off involves a BFH and the willpower to strike your rifle with said hammer, lol. Seriously though. Loosen the castle nut set screw, back off the castle nut (I fashioned a pair of castle nut pliers from a set of vice grips) until it is snug on the muzzle end, and give it a couple of whacks with a piece of 2X4 and your hammer. With any luck, the flash hider will budge a bit and you can further loosen the castle nut. Keep on at it, and it'll come right off. The last 3 of these rifles I've seen from the latest batch had very light welds and came off fairly easily. However, there was one M305 (a much earlier import, if I rember correctly) at 45ACPKING's last clinic that was stuck on there but good. I don't think we managed to knock it off, the only solution would be to take a cutting disc to it...
 
45ACPKING said:
so when it's firing, it's not grabbing the case at all for extraction when the bolt comes back? or it's firing and the bolt is not unlocking at all?
this is real important
if the gas is on, and the bolt is not unlocking when the round is fired..... that not good
off the top of my head, if the gas system is working as in piston moves freely , some vacuum is good, and gas port alignment checks out as you verified..... it's not the gas system
but if the rifle is firing and the bolt is staying locked, it's either a chamber issue ie chamber wall dimension too tight or is ovalled or burred preventing extraction..... carefully inspect cases for ovalling around circumference and gouges, rings imprinted in brass
in absence of anything anomalous in the chamber, the oprod and track as well as bolt/safety bridge/bolt release should be inspected for interference with the bolt or oprod that is preventing the normal function of the recoil system.
that's all I got for ya :D
Click to expand...

Rifle is firing, and not cycling. To eject the shell I have to pull extremely hard back on the op rod to get it out, but once it comes loose it ejects normally.

Cases seem pretty round:
IMG_4972.jpg


IMG_4975.jpg


I don't see anything obvious on the outside of the case though. When it is unloaded it doesn't cycle super smoothly, but it does cycle. It doesn't seem to hang up badly on anything.
Like I posted previously though, the necks of the rounds are swollen up a few tenths over unfired:

Hornady .308
Pre fire: 8.54mm neck
Post fire: 8.78mm neck

Hornady Superperformance .308
pre fire: 8.51mm
post fire: 8.76mm

Norinco copper wash surplus .308
pre fire: 8.51mm
post fire: 8.78mm

I don't know if this is abnormal or not

My next steps will be to scrub all of the factory crap off of this thing, dry the gas system right out, torque everything to spec, and oil up the recoil system good. Will try and shoot it on the weekend again
I did notice the cap on the gas system was suspiciously easy to take off (like finger tight) so I'm wondering if it was leaking. I didn't see any fouling like I'd expect if that was the case, but I guess I have only put like 6 rounds through her.
 
Measuring the body of the fired and unfired rounds, about 1/8" up from the base, I get the following data:

Hornady match .308 168gr BTHP:
unfired: 11.80mm
fired: 11.98mm

Hornady superperformance .308 168gr interbond:
unfired: 11.82mm
fired: 12.04mm

The bodies are a little swollen too.
I just went over to the disassembled rifle (don't worry, no bolt!) and put an unfired round in the chamber and it slid in and out, no fuss
I tried putting in a fired round, and I couldn't push hard enough to get it in as far as the unfired one, and I pushed pretty hard. To get it out I had to loosen it a bit with a screw driver. It didn't take a ton of effort to get it out, but it definitely didn't slide in or out easily. Is this normal behaviour?
 
the concerning thing here is that the action is not coming out of battery and the bolt is staying in the closed position even with the gas system in the on position
that points to a mechanical problem somewhere, not a grease or cosmoline issue
loose gas plugs, worn out gas pistons, crud and cosmo filled gas pistons generally still cause the recoil system to work somewhat

it's not good to stuff a fired case into the chamber. it's probably slightly larger simply due to expansion.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the chamber and gas system is not the problem..... ?
I would look at any damage or wearing near rear of bolt and especially the safety bridge/firing pin relations and the bolt stop
then check that the hammer in your trigger group is not catching on anything.

you need a smith or someone in the lowermainland with some experience to have a look at her before you try and shoot her again.
it's too bad Skullboy and Oldsmobiler didn't have time to run a few clinics ...... hint hint guys hehehehe

if the rifle is new and from a good dealer I would ask for an exchange.

I'm gonna expand on this as this rifle could possibly represent a major safety concern.
the gas system when on accepts that short initial burst of gas into the cylinder with the piston fully compressed. as the gas expands inside piston and plug, a slow push is generated in a specific timing pushing the oprod back and taking the bolt out of battery, then as the piston's vent hole meets the cylinder's bottom vent hole, that push ends. the gas system in the M60 machine gun is near identical. that slow push is what you need to worry about here however.

that basic gas system function should be in the very least trying to push the oprod back and unlock the bolt. if it's not, the pressures in an OPEN gas system might be catastrophic to the cylinder and injury to nearby shooters if it blows. this is theoretically possible.

so finding out what is preventing the bolt and oprod from moving to the rear or causing it to bind is kinda what I'd be concentrating on

am I makin any sense to you guys here hehehehe
 
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I think this might be a spindle valve issue, if you have access to another gas system, try swapping with a buddy and see if you still get the failure.
This is not the first rifle to do this, and I remember reading about a Springfield doing it and the owner returned it for waranty and all they did was replace the spindle valve.
This is also something you should be able to get from treeline.

Good luck!
 
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