Is neck turning required/worth it when using collet dies

[calgarycanada]

Just trying to learn something here. I understand that when using bushing dies, it's almost a must to neck turn coz if case neck thickness is not even, the sized hole(inside of the neck) can't be concentric. But with collet dies "Theoretically" collect compresses the neck against a precision machined mandrel, so the inside of the neck should be as concentric as the mandrel, shouldn't it?

So (again theoretically speaking) neck turning is not as crucial when using collet dies? I do understand that too much brass on one side of the neck may have different release pressure but that's for bench rest shooters who need accuracy below 1/4 moa, am I right? Or is neck turning a must to get 1/2 moa accuracy?

 

[Alpheus]

I don't turn necks, and get 1/2 moa with bushing dies. I do use Lapua brass, and neck thickness variation is under one thou. Good enough for me.
I do turn my Winchester brass though, just clean them up, about 75% cut.

 

[Mystic Precision]

You are correct but outside neck turning, never hurts.

annealing would be more important

Jerry

 

[bigedp51]

When you full length resize the cartridge case the base of the case is supported by the bolt face and the bullet rests in and is centered in the chamber throat, meaning the case body and case neck never touch the chamber walls.

If you have perfect brass with equal thickness case walls and case necks then neck sizing may give you better accuracy. "BUT" by full length resizing you minimize any misalignment errors with the bullet and the bore caused by the case itself.

And just because you neck turn the brass doesn't mean the case will give you better bullet alignment with the bore.

By using a neck thickness gauge like pictured below you look for cases with the least neck thickness variations for shooting bug hole groups.

And the bushing floats in a bushing die so its "NOT" going to center your case necks with the body of the case.

And a Lee collet die will not align a case with unequal case wall thickness variations.

Bottom line you need good quality brass to handload and make very accurate ammunition.

 

[Pesky ab]

What kind of shooting are you doing ?

 

[TedNugent]

When you full length resize the cartridge case the base of the case is supported by the bolt face and the bullet rests in and is centered in the chamber throat, meaning the case body and case neck never touch the chamber walls.

If you have perfect brass with equal thickness case walls and case necks then neck sizing may give you better accuracy. "BUT" by full length resizing you minimize any misalignment errors with the bullet and the bore caused by the case itself.

And just because you neck turn the brass doesn't mean the case will give you better bullet alignment with the bore.

By using a neck thickness gauge like pictured below you look for cases with the least neck thickness variations for shooting bug hole groups.

And the bushing floats in a bushing die so its "NOT" going to center your case necks with the body of the case.

And a Lee collet die will not align a case with unequal case wall thickness variations.

Bottom line you need good quality brass to handload and make very accurate ammunition.

Man, I gotta stop trying to understand your posts when I'm tired. Reminds me of a university philosophy course I took - have to read everything 3 times to get it.
Don't get me wrong though BigEd, its great to have someone to explain every tidbit of the reloading underverse.

 

[Pesky ab]

The propose of neck turning is mostly to achieve proper chamber clearance at the neck of the loaded round and to have uniform neck tension, if your dies and chamber match the rest will take care of itself. If your shooting sbr it's important ,if your just target shooting with a factory rifle you can clean up the necks if you like but it will not be as critical.

 

[calgarycanada]

Nothing formal but I like to compete with myself and my personal practical goal is 1/2 moa everytime(5 shots) and that means I have to fix those fliers. I have been debating about neck turning tools, it's not as much the price of the tools but the time that I have to put into the process(especially when wife is already complaining "you don't spend enough time with us" haha)

 

[vviking]

and that means I have to fix those fliers.

Well, I used to worry every detail to death in the pursuit of consistent 1/2 MOA. That was back then.
Nowadays, it's lapua brass annealed frequently, Lee collet dies tuned to 2 thou. neck tension, Redding/Forster BR seaters ... and a good barrel/bedding.
1/2 MOA to 500 is now everyday, unless the wind or mirage gets in the way. The price of admission for my good times way out there at 1000. Neck turning not required.
It is Sooo good to finally have a rifle under my cheek thats accurate enough to teach me how to (kinda,sorta) ... shoot!.

6.5x55 btw.

 

[Pesky ab]

Easyest way to cut your groups in half , Buy some wind flags !

 

[bigedp51]

Man, I gotta stop trying to understand your posts when I'm tired. Reminds me of a university philosophy course I took - have to read everything 3 times to get it.
Don't get me wrong though BigEd, its great to have someone to explain every tidbit of the reloading underverse.

Its very simple, you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear and you will not shoot tight groups with poor quality brass.

Also the vast majority of the people reading these postings have off the shelf factory rifles and are not using Lapua brass. Meaning neck turning and spending hours prepping your brass like competitive shooters with custom made rifles is a waste of time.

The vast majority of us will get our best accuracy by full length resizing and letting the rear of the case be supported in the rear by the bolt face and by the bullet centered in the throat. This way by full length resizing the body and neck of the case are not touching the chamber walls. This way any poorly made brass and its misalignment with the chamber and bore is eliminated or greatly reduced.

At Accurate shooter the vast majority of shooters buy Lapua brass and do not weight sort or do any prep work to the brass before shooting. On top of this our off the shelf hunting rifle are NOT bench rest rifles and what these type shooters do to their brass has very little to do with the average shooter with his average rifle.

Below is a custom made hand lapped barrel

Below is a factory made Savage button rifled barrel, before and after fire lapping.

Below is an enlargement of after fire lapping.

Below is a even bigger enlargement of a new Savage button rifled barrel.

Bottom line, neck turning, uniforming primer pockets and flash holes is wishful thinking on the vast majority of stock factory rifles. And you better off just buying high quality Lapua brass and doing nothing to it.

If you want to shoot bug hole groups then you are going to have to pay for it and buy a custom made rifle that can take advantage of custom made hand crafted ammunition.

 

[vviking]

Yup biged, that ^ 'tis truth.
Thats why, I'm sooo contented .. with 1/2 +- moa from my very best non-custom-barelled bolts.
Fact is, the next 1/4 moa is gonna cost me large, and my kinda lo-bucks shooting out to 1000 doesn't really need it .... the wind, it is the big deal.