Hey guys, my new build is giving me a little bit of trouble. It's a VLTOR upper with an S&J 16 inch carbine gas length barrel, NiB Armalite BCG on a Spikes lower. Ammo is reloaded 55gn FMJ over 27.5gn CFE223 with CCI primers with mixed brass. Extractor is ripping off part of the case head every 50-100 rds. I have not had his problem in my Colt Comp HBAR using the same ammo. Any idea as to why I'm having this issue? My guess is because of the carbine length gas system with a hot load but I'm not positive. Any feedback is appreciated.
AR-15 ripping off piece of case head
- Thread starter GunfighterAlpha
- Start date
...is the brass you're using stretched to the Colt's chamber? Clean the chamber on your build gun and run factory ammo. If the problem goes away, you'll have to segregate(or resize) your brass for the two rifles as you have 2 different sized chambers (the build gun is tighter no doubt).
That's exactly my guess, as well. Occasionally you're getting too much gas too early, and the extractor is trying to pull the case out of the chamber while it is still expanded. You tried this load in other rifles without any issue, right? Oh, and of course you're full-length sizing the brass, right?
But as others have noted, confirm that the problem does not exist with factory ammo. Or try stepping down your load to see what happens. You can also add mass (buffer) or resistance (action spring) to the carrier, which will slow down the cycling a bit and might also solve the problem.
just having some fun
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I looked at the hodgdon reloading center 223 and 55g data
you are .1g over there max load and that power is at 54000 psi so you are 54000 plus psi NO OTHER POWDER LISTED HAS A HIGHER PSI so that is a one reason why you could be ripping rims off
that powder is the fastest, Why do you need to push it that fast? Some times slower is more accurate and your brass will last longer
you are .1g over there max load and that power is at 54000 psi so you are 54000 plus psi NO OTHER POWDER LISTED HAS A HIGHER PSI so that is a one reason why you could be ripping rims off
that powder is the fastest, Why do you need to push it that fast? Some times slower is more accurate and your brass will last longer
FirearmsEnthusiast
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- Location
- Kingston, ON
Concur with this answer - also possible incomplete primary extraction before the extractor does its thing (due to bolt rotation / unlocking sequence, hot loads, too much gas impinging too quickly, etc.) - according to Sweeney in Gunsmithing the AR-15, this could also be a headspace issue affecting the bolt unlock sequence. Add this to your working list of possible causes.
Regards,
FirearmsEnthusiast
Yes I'm full length sizing, only trimming if need be. Of course only checking the cases after they have been resized. 27.5 is the most accurate load I've come up with. Its not an issue in my 20" match rifle but my original thought was its too hot for a carbine length gas system. Ive put 100 rounds of factory through it no issues, but its still not clear. Il step down my charge significantly and start working back up for this particular rifle and see if that helps. Currently runnig a heavy buffer to compensate for hotter loads but its still to much I think.
Indeed, your carbine has way, way more gas than your rifle, I'm not at all surprised at the result. But if it's only an issue for 1-2% of those handloads fired in your carbine (probably the highest pressure of the bunch due to variances in brass and loading technique), you might be able to step the load down just a very small bit to make it work. And you might still be close enough to the same window that makes those loads so accurate in your 20". So unless you want to do a full load workup, I would personally do up some test batches at 0.1gr and 0.2gr below the current load. You might luck out and find something that works well for both rifle and carbine. Though if you're after an accurate load specific to the carbine, you'd best do a full load workup from scratch, of course.
Also, again since you're only having trouble with 1-2% of the current loads, I think the heavy buffer and heavy action spring trick stand a good chance of working. You'd be slowing the timing down just a hair, since the problem evidently is too much gas too early rather than too much gas altogether (given what you've described). What weight is the buffer you're using now? I wouldn't be surprised if you could run a 6oz buffer without issue. Full auto BCG?
Oh, and C77's point about a dirty and/or rough chamber is worth looking in to.
- Location
- Georgetown Ontario
This ^ is what you should have done in the first place! Never use a handload that shoots good in one rifle and assume it'll be safe/good and accurate in another (especially if it's a max load). Always work up a load from the start for every different gun. Consider it a lesson learned, it's pretty well in lesson #1 in any reloading manual.
You raise a good point, but there are lots of reasons for trying to make an established load work in a different firearm. From what he has written here, GunfighterAlpha's issues are with function, not safety. No indication of high chamber pressures.
Before you go to the most complicated fix, look at the simple stuff.
What brand of brass is it that has its head removed? "Mixed brass" and not always, indicates an issue with just a few cases vs an issue with the rifle. Might just be those particular cases. Any Federal?
As mentioned, your load is over max for a Barnes TSX FB, but not a lead cored bullet. The load is not the issue.
What brand of brass is it that has its head removed? "Mixed brass" and not always, indicates an issue with just a few cases vs an issue with the rifle. Might just be those particular cases. Any Federal?
As mentioned, your load is over max for a Barnes TSX FB, but not a lead cored bullet. The load is not the issue.
- Location
- Georgetown Ontario
Ya not too smart trying to do that with maximum loads though. You should still start below max and work up to your favorite load from another gun. It may work just as good in your other gun or it may give you problems like to OP has.
I agree,It is nice to get a "established" load to work in several of your guns but you have to get there and find out if it works the proper safe way.
my guess would be a rough chamber causing the case to stick. never seen a hot gas system rip a shell in half. and if it were head space you would be getting blasts of chamber gases when the shell separates. a rough chamber will grip the shell very tightly at times, and can have the case head ripped off if the extractor grips well enough.
id guess you are getting streching and a rough chamber to cause the case to be ripped in half.
id guess you are getting streching and a rough chamber to cause the case to be ripped in half.
I had this issue with my ar with factory rounds for the first 10 rounds fired from it, inspected the brass and it looked rough and could see what I assumed was tooling marks from the chamber on it. had to manually extract the brass, polished the chamber with oil and hasn't happened again. runs like a champ now.
I would try standard loads with a standard buffer
