Looking for my first black rifle, information overload!

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kolik1

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Hey guys, I'm looking into picking up my first black rifle. I've been digging around here for information as well as elsewhere online, and I've come to the conclusion that I've got a good idea what are the better makes out there, but I'm completely overloaded on information. So now it's time for yet another "What AR should I buy thread". I'm not stuck on buying an AR, but I am looking for something that appears to be extremely elusive.

Would prefer 7.62x39 over .223 or .308
20" barrel
<$1000 give or take a couple hundred.

What's spurring me on is the rumor's that there's a snowball's chance in hell that the AR platform could become non-restricted by name, hence wanting to go with the 20" barrel. I can always sell it if it remains restricted and it doesn't infect me, which I'm told they do after you squeeze a few rounds off. I'd like to also maybe take the opportunity to hunt with it while keeping the cost of feeding it down, hence the 7.62x39 chambering over .308. Don't feel the need for a .223 rifle

I'm not completely stuck on having a 7.62x39AR15, I've looked at the AR10 platform as well as the T97. I've had a chance to handle the AR15 and XCR-M side by side for comparison, I'm just at an impasse as to what direction to move in so I'm looking for some community opinions :D
 
7.62x39 has had a long history of problems in the AR platform, feeding issues as well as reduced bolt life, plus it's nowhere near as common to find as it is for .223. Granted, that's not a huge problem in Canada with our small mag caps.

That said, Colt USA has recently announced a lineup of purpose-built x39 ARs. No idea on when/if they might be coming to Canada.

Are you dead-set on an AR? A VZ-58 might be a better choice for using x39.
 
Stevebot-7 said:
7.62x39 has had a long history of problems in the AR platform, feeding issues as well as reduced bolt life, plus it's nowhere near as common to find as it is for .223. Granted, that's not a huge problem in Canada with our small mag caps.

That said, Colt USA has recently announced a lineup of purpose-built x39 ARs. No idea on when/if they might be coming to Canada.

Are you dead-set on an AR? A VZ-58 might be a better choice for using x39.
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I'm not necessarily set on a AR, however a $1000+ "range toy" is a little excessive in my books. If I'm looking at possibly being able to use it for other things, like hunting, I can justify the price to myself. With that said, you can't hunt with a .223 in SK (big game), and a .24 cal or larger is required, and i don't hunt coyote's. But I'm still not dead set on a 7.62x39 or .300 blackout (meh imo) or .308. If it turns out that the AR platform doesn't become NR by name, I could always sell it.

While a VZ would be the logical choice for 7.62x39, they don't really do anything for me. Definitely a "me" problem and a mental block, "bad imitation of an AK" and all that, even though they aren't. I'd really like a semi auto AK, that would be a no-brainer to me.

Also kind of pondered about a M305 build, but I'd like a pistol grip black rifle and I'm not sure how something like that would actually feel...

I've done some looking into the Colt you mentioned (Model: CK901). I'm going to have to keep my eye out for that, but as you said, no idea when it's going to hit the Canadian market. Seeing as it was just announced at the end of June, i wouldn't expect to see it until 2016 if even that soon.

Maybe I should just buy a 20" .223 Norc...

plinker 777 said:
Paint an SKS black.:p
Click to expand...

lol, thanks but I'm really not looking for an SKS. The thought had crossed my mind to buy or put together a "tacticool" one though.
 
Maybe you should take a second look at the vz58. They really are a great rifle. Best choice in 7.62x39 for around a $1000. Maybe try one out. I have three and would never sell any of them. I've read a few reviews from guys in the states that have vz58's and AK's and they all said they'd take the vz58 over the AK. If I could own AK's I'd have a few of those to. But I don't think they're any better. Oh man I'm gonna get flamed for that statement. Lol
Don't waste your money on tacticooling an Sks. I've been there done that. My sks's are all back original now. They're a great rifle too and everyone should have at least one. Just don't bother tacticooling. Get a vz58
Another option although it's in .223 not really what your looking for but it's nonrestricted is the T97. I have one with the FTU installed and it's a great compact little package. Zero complaints.
 
^ Truth spoken.

Want a black gun?

Step 1: pick your caliber .223 7.62x39 or .308

Step 2: do you want restricted or non-restricted?

Step 3: see what's in your budget. If you can answer 1 & 2 we can pull together a selection

Example:
I want a .223
I want non-restricted
I want to keep it under $1000

Check the Su-16, Type 97, or used Vz58​

Example:
I want a .308
I'm okay with restricted
I'm a high roller

Check the Knights SR-25, or HK MR308 or LMT308 ​
​
 
kolik1 said:
Also kind of pondered about a M305 build, but I'd like a pistol grip black rifle and I'm not sure how something like that would actually feel...
Click to expand...
Have you seen the Archangel stocks for the M305?
http://www.mysticprecision.com/wp/1285/promag-archangel-m1am305-precision-stock/

Or there is also the Sage EBR for more money.

M305 in an Archangel stock, perhaps with some tuning and aftermarket parts like the op rod guide and you could be set up good for about $1000. Plus it's non-restricted today, and not as a maybe-someday option.

Or, if you wanted to try a pistol grip bolt gun, the MDT LSS and TAC-21 chassis are great options. I think they have Remington 700, Savage, and Tikka models available. I have a Remington 700 AAC-SD .308 20" bull barrel in a LSS chassis with a Magpul PRS stock. It's pretty decent.

If you happen to come through Edmonton, let me know and you can try out my AR and Rem700, see how that thrills you.
 
If the OP wants a reliable feeding AR-type rifle in 7.62x39, there IS the Rock River Arms LAR-47 rifle. It uses a typical AR upper, but the lower is specifically modded in the reciever well to accept AK-type curved magazines, which are necessaryto reliably feed the 7.62x39 M43 cartridge (something to do with the taper on the cartridge).

Not sure what the barrel length is (16" rings a bell-due to US laws) but I'm sure a 20" bbl could be sourced should 20" AR's become non-res in this country.....
 
Stevebot-7 said:
Have you seen the Archangel stocks for the M305?
http://www.mysticprecision.com/wp/1285/promag-archangel-m1am305-precision-stock/

Or there is also the Sage EBR for more money.

M305 in an Archangel stock, perhaps with some tuning and aftermarket parts like the op rod guide and you could be set up good for about $1000. Plus it's non-restricted today, and not as a someday option.
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Sound advice, that's the rout I would go for a $1000 NR black rifle with hunting abilities. If you want to go all in an M1A would be a nice choice if you can afford it.
 
From the Urban Dictionary:

One of the many nicknames of O.D.B From Wu-Tang Clan AkA
*Ason Unique
* The Bebop Specialist
* Big Baby Jesus
* BZA
* Cyrus
* Dirt Dog
* Dirt McGirt
* Dirty
* Barney Kool Breeze
* The Father
* Freeloading Rusty
* Joe Bananas
* Michael (Can't get off) Phipps
* ODB
* Ol' Dirt Schultz
* Ol' Dirty Chinese Restaurant
* Ol' Dirty Block (Gravel Pit Music Video)
* Osirus
* Prince Delight
* The Professor
* Rain Man
* Da King


Yo man,Ol' Dirty aka Dirt Mcgirt Ripped up that new track

When you break up old cigarettes to roll a new one.

"Yo C I'ma roll A dirt mcgirt"

"I'm gonna break these butt's down, and roll a dirt mcgirt real quick dawg"
 
When the 858 went prohib I then turned to the type 97. It was my first experience with the .223/5.56 realm and I can see why so many people enjoy it.
The hardest part is picking your caliber. If you want 7.62 the best in my IMO would be the Vz. 58. For .223 I would recommend a T97. They both cost about the same too.
Either one will take a bit of after market to mount optics as well.
 
If the OP is focused on a black rifle under $1k I can't think that 308/7.62 is the way to go. Even if he reloads, rounds are double the cost of commercial 223 let alone 7.62x39.
 
Rusty Joots said:
When the 858 went prohib I then turned to the type 97. It was my first experience with the .223/5.56 realm and I can see why so many people enjoy it.
The hardest part is picking your caliber. If you want 7.62 the best in my IMO would be the Vz. 58. For .223 I would recommend a T97. They both cost about the same too.
Either one will take a bit of after market to mount optics as well.
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Well I decided that I was going to wait until after the announcement before making a decision, mostly because of rumors circulating about NR AR15's. Since that didn't happen, as expected admitedly, I've purchased a VZ.58 in 7.62x39. Thanks for all the help CGN'ers
 
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