270 work up

Varmit

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I worked up a load for my 270 Win M70 featherweight last week. I had previously tried H4831 to 60 grains but didn't get good accuracy so I wanted to go further and also try RL22. The picture shows 4831 in the last two groups on the bottom right at 60.5 gr and 61 gr. Looks like 60 gr of RL22 and 61 grains of 4831 are ok. I may go to 62 grains of 4831 (7/8 inch) to see if it gets even netter. No pressure signs yet. Winchester brass, CCI primers and 130 NP.

 
61 of 4831 looks like sh!t, thats is way to much vertical dispersion , 60 of r22 looks much better, there is almost no vertical which would lead me to believe there is a bit of error in technique (pulling shots) or wind cam into play.. i would be tempted to play around with that as my starting point and see if you can tighten it up.
 
Agreed, 61 of h4831 is garbage, but so is 61.5. Are you using a bipod and rear bag or, preferably, front and rear bags or a full shooting stand? You want the human element to be removed as completely as possible. Also your charges should be as exact as possible for this.

Might I suggest you read up on doing the OCW (optimal charge method) and follow the steps carefully. It helps remove many variables and, while not perfect, it's pretty damn good. The best would be something like a full bench rest setup under the ground in a long straight mine shaft.... :) but short of that, remove whatever variables you can, especially the ones that affect vertical dispersion, and just ignore the horizontal for now.
 
61 of 4831 looks like sh!t, thats is way to much vertical dispersion , 60 of r22 looks much better, there is almost no vertical which would lead me to believe there is a bit of error in technique (pulling shots) or wind cam into play.. i would be tempted to play around with that as my starting point and see if you can tighten it up.

I meant to say 61.5 of 4831, not 61. I was shooting at 100 yds but shooting position wasn't that good, bench was too low for me and had to bend over too much. I had a small rear bag but it wasn't high enough. The wind was gusty about 20 km at a 45 degree angle toward me.

60 gr RL22 group was 1 1/4 inches and the 61.5 gr of 4831 was 7/8 inches. With the H4831 the groups were getting better as the load increased, so I'll try a little higher and work around RL22 and try to get a better set up.
 
I have ken water's pet loads. Off the top of my head, he said that jack o'connor said that 62 of 4831 was an optimum charge... Don't go by my faulty memory though...

Still best to work up the load, even the bullet type or shape, not to mention weight and construction, seating depth, brass capacity, will all affect the optimal charge weight. Hence that pet load might be too hot for the OP's gun, it might be too slow, or it might be perfect. Always a bad idea to take someone else's pet load for anything more than a curiosity and maybe something to keep in mind during working up your own. The most it is worth though is an interesting point if yours ends up with his. The biggest reason we hand load is to get the best ammo for our guns...If we just take other people's pet loads without developing them in or gun, we might as well shoot factory ammo, since the amount of time (don't know about you guys, but my time is worth a lot to me, so if I'm spending a bunch of time on something it better be worthwhile and not just for cost savings, as it would be pretty hard to have true cost savings at the rate I Bill myself out at). Having said that, a lot of guys DO just take someone else's pet load, maybe load up a set or two below and a set above that and call it a good starting point. That is certainly a lot more valid, if you are using a similar gun with the same bullet, otherwise it's absolutely best to just start at what you would consider, based on reloading data, a good starting weight. I rarely will bother with the lowest 25-40 percent of the stated range in the manual, as I have found, and can be quite confident in the fact, that anything that low in the range is not what I want anyways.

To the op... your best bet for load development is to either way for a less windy day, or at the least, try to shoot in a direction where the wind is full value (I.e. 90 degrees to the direction of bullet travel). This will take out most of the vertical dispersion due to wind. Of course wind changes direction, so you will end up with some shots that are lower or higher by a little than they should be, but it's better than shooting part way into or out of the wind, as then it has a larger effect on the velocity of the bullet and, any changes in direction or wind speed are going to be much more significant at angles bigger or smaller than "close to 90"

Also you may be well served to just throw a good bipod on your gun, get a sock or three and fill with rice, sand, or lead shot, and do your load development from prone instead of on a bench. How stable is your bench? If you can wiggle or move it then you want a different one for load development.. Remember changing the angle of your barrel only .318 degrees will move you off target by 20 inches....that's not very much movement. It's a change in muzzle position by only 140 thousandths of an inch. Heck moving the barrel angle by only 0.0796 degrees (35 thousandths of an inch muzzle movement on a 26" barrel) will put your shot off by five inches.... This shows how critical it is to keep the gun steady....you could end up, by random chance, choosing a load that really isn't nearly your best one. Also increasing the number of shots per charge greatly reduced the error in every way. Even the human error part, since if you are decent with your gun, you might have one or even Terry shots that are less perfect than the others, so with three shots that destroys your data, but with 7 or 10 shot groups you are much more likely to end up seeing useful data from most of your shots.

Good luck!
 
Have you found any loads, factory or otherwise, that shoot better than this? It's possible that this is the best that rifle will do. You should also look at scope mounts ( are all screws tight?) action screws, and finally bedding. Try using a different bullet, that rifle simply may not like nosler partitions. How often do you clean the barrel? Some rifles won't shoot with a fouled barrel ( I have one of those).

Finally, if you're getting consistent 7/8" groups from 61.5/4831, that's certainly good enough to go hunting with. Jack O'Connor would have been happy as a pig in sh** with groups like that. This is what he said about his favourite .270, a customized Winchester M70 but using the factory barrel:

"If I am having a good day, let the barrel cool a bit between shots, and take pains to hold the rifle the same for each shot, it will keep five shots in an inch or slightly over. Contrary to much of what one reads, this is exceptional. With this rifle I have shot many three-shot groups of 3/4-inch or a bit less."

We've been brain-washed to think we need sub-1/2" groups, but really, even groups 3 times that size are perfectly adequate for most hunting.
 
Have you found any loads, factory or otherwise, that shoot better than this? It's possible that this is the best that rifle will do. You should also look at scope mounts ( are all screws tight?) action screws, and finally bedding. Try using a different bullet, that rifle simply may not like nosler partitions. How often do you clean the barrel? Some rifles won't shoot with a fouled barrel ( I have one of those).

Finally, if you're getting consistent 7/8" groups from 61.5/4831, that's certainly good enough to go hunting with. Jack O'Connor would have been happy as a pig in sh** with groups like that. This is what he said about his favourite .270, a customized Winchester M70 but using the factory barrel:

"If I am having a good day, let the barrel cool a bit between shots, and take pains to hold the rifle the same for each shot, it will keep five shots in an inch or slightly over. Contrary to much of what one reads, this is exceptional. With this rifle I have shot many three-shot groups of 3/4-inch or a bit less."

We've been brain-washed to think we need sub-1/2" groups, but really, even groups 3 times that size are perfectly adequate for most hunting.

The rifle is only a year old and maybe 50 rounds through it so I'm just getting familiar with it. I'm happy with MOA accuracy but want it at HV as is practical, so I am happy the groups improved as I went up in the loading. I will try some more and see if I can get any better.
 
Have you found any loads, factory or otherwise, that shoot better than this? It's possible that this is the best that rifle will do. You should also look at scope mounts ( are all screws tight?) action screws, and finally bedding. Try using a different bullet, that rifle simply may not like nosler partitions. How often do you clean the barrel? Some rifles won't shoot with a fouled barrel ( I have one of those).

Finally, if you're getting consistent 7/8" groups from 61.5/4831, that's certainly good enough to go hunting with. Jack O'Connor would have been happy as a pig in sh** with groups like that. This is what he said about his favourite .270, a customized Winchester M70 but using the factory barrel:

"If I am having a good day, let the barrel cool a bit between shots, and take pains to hold the rifle the same for each shot, it will keep five shots in an inch or slightly over. Contrary to much of what one reads, this is exceptional. With this rifle I have shot many three-shot groups of 3/4-inch or a bit less."

We've been brain-washed to think we need sub-1/2" groups, but really, even groups 3 times that size are perfectly adequate for most hunting.

Fair enough, but I do tend to agree that, the more accurate I can get my equipment the better. If my gear is only capable of 2 moa then that means my part of it has to be a heck of a lot better. If I'm off by 4 inches at 200 yards and my gun is only good to 2 moa with the ammo I've made, that means that I could easily be off by 8 inches, and at 300 or 400 yards that becomes even more significant...It becomes possible to be off by 10 inches at 300 or a whopping 12 inches at 400 yards.

Whereas if I've got gear that is accurate to half MOA, and my shot is off by that same 4 inches, my biggest miss with the combined inaccuracy is only 5 inches at 200, 5.5 at 300, and 6 inches at 400 yards. At 300 and 400 that could easily turn a kill into a wound on many animals, and depending on the conditions etc could mean flat out missing or causing a wound that takes days to kill the animal if you can't get a follow up shot in
 
Don't waste your time, 270 isn't worth the effort to work up a load for.........get rid of it and get a 280 or 6.5-284 or 7 mag or 264 WM or 6.5X55 or 284 Win, or 7-08 or 300 WM..........or pretty much anything but a 270 Win..........;):):):)
 
Fair enough, but I do tend to agree that, the more accurate I can get my equipment the better. If my gear is only capable of 2 moa then that means my part of it has to be a heck of a lot better. If I'm off by 4 inches at 200 yards and my gun is only good to 2 moa with the ammo I've made, that means that I could easily be off by 8 inches, and at 300 or 400 yards that becomes even more significant...It becomes possible to be off by 10 inches at 300 or a whopping 12 inches at 400 yards.

Whereas if I've got gear that is accurate to half MOA, and my shot is off by that same 4 inches, my biggest miss with the combined inaccuracy is only 5 inches at 200, 5.5 at 300, and 6 inches at 400 yards. At 300 and 400 that could easily turn a kill into a wound on many animals, and depending on the conditions etc could mean flat out missing or causing a wound that takes days to kill the animal if you can't get a follow up shot in

I agree. I have a friend who is satisfied with 6 inch groups at 100 yds (he is mean and doesn't want to waste ammo). The whole reason I got into handloading was to find accurate and consistent loads for my rifle. For me to have confidence in a rifle it has to be accurate.
 
I agree. I have a friend who is satisfied with 6 inch groups at 100 yds (he is mean and doesn't want to waste ammo). The whole reason I got into handloading was to find accurate and consistent loads for my rifle. For me to have confidence in a rifle it has to be accurate.

I agree.. if I am going to be happy with 1 or 2moa groups, why bother handloading? I can go buy some factory ammo, save myself a BUNCH of time, and energy, and hassle, and just shoot the darn thing. Heck maybe trying out different types of ammo I'll find one that's going to shoot decently, but if you're handloading, the major reason should be to get good ammo and lots of it. You aren't going to save a whole bunch of money unless/until you shoot A LOT. The cost, in both time and money, of handloading and the equipment to do so, is going to really negate the cost savings for a while. Sure, after a few years of doing it, I'm sure you start seeing savings compared to average factory ammo, but the real savings comes in when you look at the cost of the best premium factory loaded ammo and compare it to your handloads, which SHOULD perform better than ANY factory ammo in YOUR rifle. If it doesn't, you really are wasting your time, in my opinion.

Of course if you are handloading for the sake of handloading, and the fun/relaxation of it, then go nuts, but i guess my point would be, if you're doing it for the fun of it, isn't it more fun to know that you've made ammo that performs better than anything else you can find from a factory, for less money?
 
I agree.. if I am going to be happy with 1 or 2moa groups, why bother handloading? I can go buy some factory ammo, save myself a BUNCH of time, and energy, and hassle, and just shoot the darn thing. Heck maybe trying out different types of ammo I'll find one that's going to shoot decently, but if you're handloading, the major reason should be to get good ammo and lots of it. You aren't going to save a whole bunch of money unless/until you shoot A LOT. The cost, in both time and money, of handloading and the equipment to do so, is going to really negate the cost savings for a while. Sure, after a few years of doing it, I'm sure you start seeing savings compared to average factory ammo, but the real savings comes in when you look at the cost of the best premium factory loaded ammo and compare it to your handloads, which SHOULD perform better than ANY factory ammo in YOUR rifle. If it doesn't, you really are wasting your time, in my opinion.

Of course if you are handloading for the sake of handloading, and the fun/relaxation of it, then go nuts, but i guess my point would be, if you're doing it for the fun of it, isn't it more fun to know that you've made ammo that performs better than anything else you can find from a factory, for less money?

Sure it does. I was using Fed preium for a 30-06 I was using on a sheep hunt and although I was getting good groups I would get the odd flyer way out from the group, may one a box or so. I haven't found that with my handloads. Oh yeah, everyone talks about saving money by handloading but my friends who golf don't save much either.
 
Totally lost me on the golf comment.....

But Yea when I first got into this I thought "great I'll save a ton" but shortly raised that I wouldn't be satisfied with average ammo, thus the cost of decent components plus all the equipment meant I either reloaded very good ammo at a similar cost of buying cheap factory stuff, or I reload cheap ammo at hardly any savings...I decided that there really is no point, especially for what I shoot.
 
Totally lost me on the golf comment.....

But Yea when I first got into this I thought "great I'll save a ton" but shortly raised that I wouldn't be satisfied with average ammo, thus the cost of decent components plus all the equipment meant I either reloaded very good ammo at a similar cost of buying cheap factory stuff, or I reload cheap ammo at hardly any savings...I decided that there really is no point, especially for what I shoot.

well, with golf when you buy a new putter or whatever, you don't talk about how much money it will save you. It's a hobby same as reloading the way I look at it.
 
From Sierra:
Accuracy Load: RE-22/ 56.7grs. 3000fps/ 2597ft. lbs.
Hunting Load: RE-22/ 58.2grs. 3100fps/ 2774ft. lbs.

The Nosler book shows 59.0 grains of H4831SC as the most accurate powder/load.

With the 150 grain bullet, Nosler still shows 52 grains of H4350 as the most accurate powder/load.
 
If bug-hole groups are your goal you might want to re-evaluate 3 shot testing, at 100 yards on a windy day with Partitions and a M70 Featherweight.

Don't get me wrong, in the right circumstances I like and/or do all of those things but jeezz pick a fight you can win. Besides, whats the gun for? If you want MOA to shoot 500 yards with hunting bullets then go to 500 yard range on a calm day and see what you get. Anything else is theory.
 
well, with golf when you buy a new putter or whatever, you don't talk about how much money it will save you. It's a hobby same as reloading the way I look at it.

Doh! Should have got that...Lol

But yea totally, reloading is a tool to improve my "game" not a way to save money, that's a great analogy though. Guys can spend hundreds on that new putter in hopes of a better game
 
If bug-hole groups are your goal you might want to re-evaluate 3 shot testing, at 100 yards on a windy day with Partitions and a M70 Featherweight.

Don't get me wrong, in the right circumstances I like and/or do all of those things but jeezz pick a fight you can win. Besides, whats the gun for? If you want MOA to shoot 500 yards with hunting bullets then go to 500 yard range on a calm day and see what you get. Anything else is theory.

Not about bug hole groups, it's about finding the best load, and that cannot be done in the conditions he was shooting in, well, it can't be done nearly as easily anyways! If course you can do it but you need to be damn good at reading the wind or, more realistically, shoot across the wind not part way into or out of it, as that will now skew your velocity and thus your sd and es, which, no he doesn't care about so much for having bug hole groups as he cares (or should care) because the charge that is among the most precise with the least sd and es and that has similar data for the charge above and below it, will be three optimum charge for that bullet in that rifle with that powder
 
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