Lead extraction from a battery

[KotKotofeich]

A little report on a process to extract lead from a car (tractor in this case) battery. I'm going to come to the conclusion that this is not something to be tried at home... mostly because the lead oxide that forms one of the plates needs to be disposed of somehow and it's definitely not something you want to throw out with the garbage - it's toxic, etc etc... We are lucky to have access to a proper lab with proper waste disposal services...

Even though I don't go into details on the actual smelting in this post, that is also a process that may be dangerous... Don't try it at home.

So... please treat this post as a "Here's how a chemist will do it and the safety precautions he'll take. We can't do a live demo, but we can show you the pictures in case you are curious." And, yes, you are watching a PhD in Chemistry performing the demo.

On to the pictures (cell phone, I really had no plans to post them this time since this was a trial run, but it worked out pretty well):

Draining out the acid

Dilution and flush (double). WARNING! heat is one of the products when you mix water and sulfuric acid. The acid in the battery is diluted but for safety one needs to use cold water and add acid to water not vice versa if at all possible. This is why we drain (most of) the acid out before flushing.

Opening the top with a sharp xacto knife

Top view

First cell out.

We then separate the cells into...

Pure lead plates and terminals

Lead oxide plates (with lead wire framing). Not sure if it's worth smelting the lead out of all this

Final results

 

[burnt_servo]

it is not just lead in there but a mix of other highly toxic and extremely dangerous metals .

 

[Doors of Perception]

This is not a good idea - see this !!! link h t t p://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?138362-Why-Car-Batteries-Are-Dangerous

Why Car Batteries Are Dangerous

The warnings about smelting automotive batteries to recover the lead they contain needs a bit of explanation. Doing so really does have the potential to harm or even kill you and here is why. Maintenance free/low maintenance batteries use calcium metal-doped lead to catalyze the hydrogen gas generated from water electrolysis back into water. That is what makes the batteries low maintenance or maintenance free, you don't need to add water to the cells as often like in the old days. When the battery lead is melted down there is enough sulfuric acid from residual electrolyte trapped in the lead dioxide and lead framework of the battery plates to react with the small amount of calcium metal in the lead alloy. Normally when sulfuric acid (or water) gets in contact with calcium metal it undergoes a rather vigorous reaction that generates hydrogen gas. In and of itself this is no big deal, hydrogen is a simple non-toxic asphyxiant that is also flammable. But the lead alloy used in batteries also contains a bit of antimony and even arsenic to help harden and strengthen the lead to withstand the vibration and general knocking-about batteries have to withstand in order to survive normal automotive use. When hydrogen comes in contact with arsenic and antimony, or compounds of these two elements, the hydrogen reacts to form ammonia analogues called arsine and stibine, AsH3 and SbH3. Both of these are heavy gases and both have the similar characteristic odors of rotting fish. In World War One the Germans experimented with these, along with phosphine, another rotting-fish-smelling gaseous ammonia analogue with formula PH3, as war gases. As such they were highly effective since they are deadly in amounts too small to easily detect. In even smaller amounts that are too small to immediately kill they cause rather painful lung damage that often eventually leads to emphysema and lung cancer.
So, leave smelting car batteries or using lead smelted from them to professional recyclers. Many folks including myself have successfully smelted batteries and lived to tell about it, but the risk is just too great to mess with the stuff.

 

[KotKotofeich]

All excellent points. I suppose I should not have separated this out from the melting post I have planned for later where I intend to talk of the possible dangers of that process. Fume hood - enough said. Throwing in some (more) disclaimers...

 

[antiqueguy]

what's with the lab coat and gloves we used to crack them open(most have holes in the top with covers) dump the acids into a bucket and get the lead smelt it down and make sinkers we used to find old battery's in the alleys all the time I have done more then a few I smelted it outside

 

[KotKotofeich]

We used to do that as kids too... Now, we are a bit more safety and environment conscious I also suspect that the batteries we had access to as kids were a lot simpler technologically and thus less dangerous... safe over sorry - as firearms owners we don't skip out on safety either, right?

 

[ted_dent]

No thanks. I'd rather scrounge for wheel weights. A little stinky when melting them but they probably won't eat my liver in the long run.

 

[antiqueguy]

We used to do that as kids too... Now, we are a bit more safety and environment conscious I also suspect that the batteries we had access to as kids were a lot simpler technologically and thus less dangerous... safe over sorry - as firearms owners we don't skip out on safety either, right?

this was just a few years ago batter tech has not changed much in 7 years or so

 

[antiqueguy]

No thanks. I'd rather scrounge for wheel weights. A little stinky when melting them but they probably won't eat my liver in the long run.

wheel weights also have arsenic in them besides they are drying up no one uses lead any more. I have a 55gal drum full and a good number of ingots of WW alloy on top of all the pure lead and linotype I have I don't lose too much alloy as I started shooting into a catch container made from a rubber made garbage can and rubber mulch along with about a foot of pea gravel catches everything I throw at it

 

[wbaad]

I have used the large lead terminals on the tops of the plates from a previously broken/drained/ rinsed battery. Nothing else really seemed worth it

 

[Grock-co]

pouring battery acid down the drain, sounds responsible to me, after all it will soon be someone else problem then

 

[223762]

yup. really good for the plumbing im sure... on the up side you could make explosives and bullets at the same time lol.

 

[KotKotofeich]

this was just a few years ago batter tech has not changed much in 7 years or so

Ok, you may be right - my friend in the pictures also tells me that the dangers of offgassing are exaggerated. Proper ventilation and not sticking your face in the pot would take care of it all (all of it common sense). I'm going to trust a professional more than what I read on the internet. (Note, I'm not asking you guys to trust me, of course - come to your own conclusions.)

As for sulfuric acid down the drain - that is the common acid disposal procedure for all chemical facilities Hate to break it to you, a lot of different and scary sounding stuff goes in the drain all the time and the regulating bodies deem it safe The only thing they do different is that their plumbing is non-metal until it gets to the main.

Lead oxide will be sent to a chemical waste processing facility.

 

[Canuck223]

As for sulfuric acid down the drain - that is the common acid disposal procedure for all chemical facilities Hate to break it to you, a lot of different and scary sounding stuff goes in the drain all the time and the regulating bodies deem it safe The only thing they do different is that their plumbing is non-metal until it gets to the main.

Lead oxide will be sent to a chemical waste processing facility.

Yep, if you look under the sink you are likely going to find that the pipe and U are made of glass for that reason.

 

[yardie]

pouring battery acid down the drain, sounds responsible to me, after all it will soon be someone else problem then

I'd be more concerned with individuals who flush their unused medicines down the drain.

 

[shredder0]

NEVER and I mean NEVER try to recover lead from batteries.

 

[Beermaker]

Why not go to a dentist office and get the lead backing from the x-ray films?

 

[Spawn-Inc]

Why not go to a dentist office and get the lead backing from the x-ray films?

I would assume by now that most use new digital film imaging. But worth a shot to ask.

 

[fraserdw]

I did this for a living after uni while waiting for full time army. We had a simliar facility, HOWEVER, we wore respirators, splash proof googles and acid burn resistence overalls. This looks a little ringy dink for a Phd in chemistry. You do this this way 5 days a week for a year and you will feed the services of an oxygen company for the rest of your life.

 

[GTA Dragon]

Conforms to ANSI Z400.1-2004 Standard (United States, Canada).

Material Safety Data Sheet

Sulfuric Acid (30 - 51%)

Environmental precautions
Accidental release measures
: Avoid dispersal of spilled material and runoff and contact with soil, waterways, drains
and sewers. Inform the relevant authorities if the product has caused environmental
pollution (sewers, waterways, soil or air).



Ya I was noticing a lack of Acid proof Apron replaced with old smock, and some super awesome eye protection rather than a face shield or Goggles with a respirator. And no respirator, and no fume hood.

Seems more like a Meth Lab than a real LAB, most Labs are a lot cleaner.

BTW:NEVER ATEPT THIS EVER< MAYBE POST APCOLYPSE BUT NOT THIS DAY AND AGE